OLD BRIDGE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL
AGENDA MEETING
March 3, 2003
An Agenda Meeting of the Township Council of the Township of Old Bridge was held on Monday, March 3, 2003 in the Municipal Complex. The meeting was called to order by President Butler at 8:00 p.m., who asked all present to participate in a salute to the flag followed by a short prayer. Deputy Clerk Ward called the roll with the following answering present:
Councilmen Calogera, Greene, Hoff, Maher, Redmond, Councilwoman Panos, President Butler.
Councilmen Baker and Testino arrived at 8:05 p.m.
GUESTS - 03/03/03
Resolution for no existence of Liquor License #1209-31-044-001 Old Bridge Lion's Club due to failure to file in a timely fashion (Guest - Steve Abrams)
President Butler: Since we do not have a representative present we will go to the next item on our agenda.
2. Thomas C. Piper, Cedarview Estates
Thomas Piper: I am the attorney for the homeowners of Cedarview Estates. We have two members of the association, John King, President and Frank Masscia, Secretary also present this evening. We are here to follow-up on a problem that we first brought to the Council's attention a year ago this past summer and for which we are still seeking both the short and long term resolution, that is the silting up of the drainage ditches which run across the front of the Cedarview Estates project. They have not been maintained and present a present health and public safety issue and as we get into the warm weather they will present a totally different health and public safety issue in terms of mosquitos and other insects. There were some issues of other downstream property owners who through your attorney and engineer were seeking resolution to that. We have continued to make inquiries and we are frustrated and we are here this evening to try and get answers. We believe that the short term solution simply entails dredging out what is there now and may have to be done several times to reach the long term resolution.
John King: We have had a significant amount of rainfall over the past couple of weeks and even before that with the snow there is a build-up of water in the tree line of Perrine and Cheesequake Roads to the point where it is like a lake and the trees are buried in about 3-4 feet of water, which presents a tremendous hazard should a child venture into that area something tragic could happen. In direct correlation to the flooding it is so backed up there that the water has no place to go and it is a running rapid at this point. Mr. Piper did allude to the fact that when the season does change we will experience an even greater issue because of the mosquitos.
We have come to this Council before especially with the Lowe's issue and the matter of the roads being taken over, this is something that is hazardous and needs immediate attention before someone is injured. The Council has known about this problem for over one year and the response we had was that you were looking into who was responsible and at what rate compensation would be done. I am here to find out some answers.
President Butler: If I recall, the township attorney was supposed to negotiate with the property owners downstream.
Attorney Ruggierio: If I understand what you are talking about, there are two issues here. One is the fact that there is a stream which over a long period of time, maybe 20 years, has been diminished in terms of its capacity because of the flow of sediments and soils into it. About a year ago we did have a proposal on the table with the three parties, Manzo, Brunetti and Coastal Pipe Line and we proposed that instead of us filing a law suit and being involved in years of litigation, to go ahead and require that they fund a complicated engineering study to determine responsibility and that study might get us to a point where we could conclude the percentage of responsibility for each party. I believe one of the parties was not willing to go in that direction and so it left us to the point where we have to file suit and we have not done that. I'll be happy to discuss this matter with the Council to determine the cost for the township to do this type of analysis, but I have a feeling that it is relatively expensive. The other issue and I believe that you have done everything you need to do with respect to the Declaration of Default on the Performance Guarantees, and as I discussed with our engineer, I will dust off the files and commence suit with respect to it.
Councilman Redmond: If I recall and this goes back before John's time, there was talk about the Brunetti property which is a big part of this drainage problem. Brunetti has a piece of property before the Planning Board right now, is this the same property?
John Vincenti: No, there are two large Brunetti properties in question. The property that is contributing the sediment is upstream, the property currently before the board is down stream.
Councilman Redmond: Nelson gave us an overview and said that the down stream Brunetti property was not being maintained, and they were supposed to do it and it was compounding this drainage problem on Perrine Road.
John Vincenti: That may be true but I have not been onto the down stream Brunetti property to really see what if anything they are doing there. If that is the case, then maybe there could be a connection between the current planning application.
Councilman Redmond: Can we find out because from what I read in the papers they are on the verge of a final hearing at the planning board and I don't want to make this any worse than it already is?
John Vincenti: I will check, but I can tell you that the sediment problem does not stop on the Cedarview Estates property, the stream sedimentation goes all the way down that stream corridor and it could be a combination of both things. You have soil erosion upstream that comes down, so it is not only depositing on the stream on their property, but it is depositing on the down stream property, which happens to be the Brunetti property.
Councilman Redmond: There are supposed to be people who are required to maintain the drainage all the way down, correct?
John Vincenti: That is correct.
Councilman Redmond: Even if we took the bonds and got the people up stream to do their part it still may not solve the problem, we may need to go further down, so that is why I am trying to find out if we need to involve the other properties at this stage of the game.
Councilman Hoff: Point of order. I don't think that we should be discussing this openly until we have the advice of the attorney then we can discuss this matter.
President Butler: Larry is recalling information from other meetings and I think that it is important in reference as to why these gentlemen are here and why we have not resolved the problem.
Councilman Redmond: I think we need to take care of the problem at this venture rather than waiting and finding out we still have the problem.
John Vincenti: I think that is what an overall study would do, it would determine in the entire stream corridor what the problems are and who are the responsible parties. That is the purpose of getting the study done.
John King: That is looking into the long term solution.
President Butler: Bill, these gentlemen need to know how to proceed and we need to put a plan of action together.
Attorney Ruggierio: Perhaps Mr. Vincenti could solicit proposals for what it would cost us to do a study to determine who contributes currently and historically to the siltation and soils to that stream that has caused it to become obstructed and analyze potential liability and bring it back to the Council and see if you want to spend money on that.
John King: In all due respect, that is the same answer we got one year ago.
Attorney Ruggierio: That is not true. The answer you got then was that we had a lot of discussions with the potentially responsible parties to try to get them to fund the study. Now, since we did not succeed in that strategy we are going forward with a choice by the Council as to whether or not they want to fund what would be an expensive engineering study to determine the liability in this issue. So it is not accurate to say it is the same thing we talked about last year.
John King: That is okay because it is moving in the right direction for the long term. However, the short term is really the issue at hand now.
Mayor Cannon: There is no question that the study has to be done, but in the meantime there has to be some relief to avoid any health and safety concerns. I think we need to work with you to see what can be done even if it is only a stop-gap that will buy us some time. I will be talking to the township engineer to see what can be done.
President Butler: I need the engineer to be communicating with the residents of Cedarview and the attorney to make sure that we are all on the same page moving forward.
Thomas Piper: We need dates as to when Administration will take steps toward the temporary solution, within a month, within a week, we want a date.
Attorney Ruggierio: I think that certainly setting deadlines is fine, but there are two issues here. You talk about a temporary fix, I think this requires permits and that is the kind of thing that requires analysis. As to keeping the residents apprised , I believe that John's response will be to the Council based on cost factor.
John Vincenti: In order to do some work there, we need to get permits from the State.
Just to get to the point where you file an application, it then takes 90-120 days to get the permit. So that means that we have to do some work to get to the stage where we file for the permits. Then we put a job out to bid, there is no way that anything will be done for at least six months. From the standpoint of actual interim fixes, my suspicion is that when we do the study concurrently it may determine to spend some amount of money in the middle of the stream where we have upstream and downstream problems is not going to be money well spent. So I don't think that we can make any commitment right now to spend any amount of money to fix a problem that after we look at in more detail, we may determine that the money is not being spent efficiently.
President Butler: You are basically saying that we need to look at the whole problem before we make any decisions. However, I just want you to keep these people in the loop.
Councilman Baker: When are you saying that these guys will be hearing from us, six months?
John Vincenti: No, the next time they will be hearing from us is when we have received proposals as far as the engineering study is concerned and it is brought before this Council as far as to authorize that work and we will keep them informed during the entire phase of all the work planning that is being done.
Councilman Baker: Will you give them weekly, quarterly updates?
Mayor Cannon: John will call you within two weeks to let you know what the plan is and how we are going to proceed.
Thomas Piper: What about the mosquito breeding problem that will be coming up soon?
John Vincenti: We cannot do any work in that stream without a permit, it is as simple as that. So the permit from the State to get the stream cleaned up will take 90-120 days once the complete application is on file with the DEP.
President Butler: Hopefully in 90 days we can get back to you and everything will be going forward.
HEARINGS - 3/3/03
H-1 Release/Reduction Performance Guarantee - Deer Run Estates - Postponed by Attorney - (New date Monday, May 12, 2003 - WITH RE-NOTICE)
H-2 Release/Reduction Performance - Park's Edge Application #62-98Z, Blk. 3230, Lot 15 - Postponed by Attorney - (New date - Monday, May 12, 2003 - WITH RE-NOTICE)
HEARINGS - 3/10/03
H-1 Release/Reduction Performance Guarantee - Pulaski Savings Bank Block 11238, Lot 23.11
H-2 Release/Reduction Performance Guarantee - Reformed Church Ministries (Removed - request filed with legal on maintenance bond re resolution rescinding approval of release)
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Combined Meeting - January 27, 2003
Move-up
ORDINANCE FOR SECOND READING
ORD. #07-03 Amend Ordinance #23 - Fire Inspection Fees
Move-up
ORD. #08-03 To accept deed between Jeffrey Robbins and Township of Old Bridge (Part of Lot. No. 18 - Blk. 10254)
Move-up
ORD. #09-03 To accept deed between the Fonseca Group, Inc. and Township of Old Bridge (Block 11232 - Lot 3.11)
Move-up
ORD. #10-03 To accept deed between Woodhaven Village and Township of Old Bridge (Block 22001 - Lot 4.12)
Move-up
ORDINANCE FOR FIRST READING
FR-1 To amend Ordinance #43-02 Persons convicted of selling cigarettes to minors to display sign publishing conviction.
Councilman Calogera: Mr. Ruggierio has prepared the ordinance so I would like to move this matter up.
FR-2 To amend Ordinance #52-02, Before/After Program Fees - Township of Old Bridge Day Care.
Alayne Shepler: We are not ready to do this so I would like to take this off and we will bring it back when we are finished.
FR-3 Adopting Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices for streets and highways requiring temporary traffic control.
Move-up
Councilman Testino: Mr. President, you said there was no discussion on first reading, but this is the agenda meeting and that is when we have discussions. You went right over FR-1 and there were some people who were asking for a change to that ordinance to three times. Instead of having a vote it on Monday night and having it go down we should discuss it now.
Councilman Calogera: Basically the changes recommended by committee are because it is felt that the ordinance was a little too strict and we were trying to make it a more workable ordinance and with more measure of fairness to it. At the same time it would address the issue of underage smoking which we all take very seriously. I think the ordinance still does that even with the proposed changes. Basically, it would bring it to a second offense within 18 months and require posting of a sign for 90 days and require that the participants selling to underage persons would have to attend classes sponsored by the County in smoking cessation and effects of smoking on the body. I think that the changes that we put in are much more reasonable and still address the problem.
Councilman Baker: I support Kevin's efforts with his committee and thank them for their time. Unfortunately, I believe this ordinance still needs some adjustment. I think it is still too harsh and I believe that the number of fines we have given out in Old Bridge in the past 5-10 years has been 6. I don't think this is a Council function, but rather a parental one and I could support this ordinance if we change it from 2 to 3 times and you're out.
Councilman Testino: I am not convinced that the ordinance needs amending, but I am willing to have it go up for first reading and hear what the public has to say. I know that some business owners have said it is too harsh and I would like to hear from them and I know we have some residents who would like it not to be changed, and I am sure we will hear from them as well.
I don't think either of the suggestions are wrong in any way, we thank the committee for looking at it cautiously.
Move-up
Vice-president Redmond: Does anyone have anything to discuss on FR-2 Uniform Traffic Device Manual?
John Vincenti: Basically, in this draft ordinance there is a section on hours, prohibiting any work before 9 am and after 3:30 pm. While in some instances I agree this is good thing, there are many instances, particularly when we bid our road improvement projects, where it is really not practical to limit the work during those hours, it would needlessly stretch the projects and increase the costs. There should be some modification to this language.
Vice-president Redmond: Could you get together with Bill and work on this?
Capt. Bonfante: We oppose the taking of those times and making them any earlier during school year because we have too much traffic congestion and the kids to contend with. We don't care about the interior roads, but the major thoroughfares, like Throckmorton, Thomas, Rt. 516, we strongly object to changing the times.
Vice-president Redmond: Might I suggest that you meet with John and Bill and come up with a acceptable plan.
DISCUSSION RESOLUTION
DR-1 Memorialize Release of Performance Guarantee - Industrial Realty Application #105-99P
Move-up
DR-2 Memorialize Release of Performance Guarantee - Renaissance (On Site) #9400Z
Move-up
DR-3 Memorialize Release of Performance Guarantee - Renaissance (Off Site) #9400Z
Move-up
DR-4 Memorialize Release of Performance Guarantee - Prest's Mill Estates Blk. 13003, Lot 37.11 - 37.17
Move-up
DR-5 Permission to hold Old Bridge Lions 5K Race for Vision on Sunday, June 1, 2003 9 a.m. - 11 p.m.
Move-up
DR-6 Award of Professional Services Contract for Lead Based Paint Hazards Evaluation/ Testing/Clearance to LEW Corporation in the amount of "Not to exceed $15,000. (Cert #1116) (Affirm Act.)
Move-up
DR-7 Professional Services Agreement to Urbitran/Garmen Associates for Traffic Engineer for Planning Board (to be paid out of escrow)
Move-up
DR-8 Professional Services Agreement to CME Associates to assist the Zoning Board (To be paid out of escrow)
Move-up
DR-9 Professional Services Agreement to Gary Lovallo - CMF Tree Expert Company as Consulting Forester for Planning Board (To be paid out of escrow)
Move-up
DR-10 Professional Services Contract for Environmental Resolutions for Planning Board (Amount to be paid is Limited to amount of funds held in escrow)
Move-up
DR-11 Professional Services Agreement for Mark Remsa, Consultant to the Planning & Zoning Board (to be paid out of escrow) Nunc Pro Tunc 1/1/03-12/31/03
Move-up
Vice-president Redmond: This "Nunc Pro Tunc" keeps coming up, I don't like this. Can't we do this some other way?
Attorney Ruggierio: The problem is the boards reorganize in January and they forward the name of the person appointed and by the time it gets through the pipeline, and the end of January through February is not a long time, but the people have been incurring obligations for the board out of escrow since they were appointed and that is why we end up a lot of "Nunc Pro Tunc" with Zoning and Planning.
Vice-president Redmond: Can't we send letters to the boards to speed up the process?
Mayor Cannon: You still need to draw up contracts and go back and forth for signatures.
Attorney Ruggierio: There is going to be some time lag but maybe we can tighten it up a little bit.
DR-12 Correction of February 24, 2003 bill listing on overtime
Move-up
DR-13 The Golf Center - Renewal of amusement games license
Move-up
Action to be taken 3/3/03
DR-14 Authorizing auction on surplus property at Boyce's Towing on Thursday, March 27, 2003
RESOLUTION NO. 141-03
BE IT RESOLVED, by the Township Council of the Township of Old Bridge, County of Middlesex, State of New Jersey that:
WHEREAS, the Township Council of the Township of Old Bridge has determined that the personal property listed as attached is not needed for any public use; and
WHEREAS, the estimated value of the said personal property exceeds the sum of $2500.00; and
WHEREAS, it is in the best interest of the Township to sell the said property at public auction; and
WHEREAS, such sale shall be held on Thursday, March 27, 2003 at Boyce's Towing located at 1706 Old Bridge-Englishtown Road, Old Bridge, New Jersey; and
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the Township Council of the Township of Old Bridge, County of Middlesex, State of New Jersey, that the notice of the date, time and place of the public sale together with a description of the items to be sold and conditions of sale shall be published in the official newspaper of the Township; as such sale shall be held not less than seven (7) nor more than fourteen (14) days after the publication date of the notice of sale; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the sale of the said personal property shall be upon the condition that all such property shall be sold as an "as is" condition and the Township shall not give any warranty as to the quality or condition of the property; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Township does hereby reserve the right to reject any and all bids.
Moved by President Butler, seconded by Councilman Greene and so ordered on the following roll call vote:
AYES: Councilmen Baker, Calogera, Greene, Hoff, Maher, Redmond, Testino, Councilwoman Panos, President Butler
NAYS: None.
Prior to the roll call vote the following discussion took place:
Councilman Hoff: What are you auctioning?
Deputy Clerk Ward: Automobiles.
Councilman Hoff: Why isn't there a list of what is being auctioned?
Alayne Shepler: I believe the Clerk just indicated that she will provide you with a list.
Vice-president Redmond opened this matter to the public, seeing no hands he closed the public portion.
DISCUSSION
D-1 Proposed FY2003 Capital Projects
Himanshu Shah: As we discussed this matter previously, what I am looking for here this evening is direction as to whether or not Council is willing to introduce this ordinance so I can advise the bond counsel to prepare the ordinance for the March 10th meeting. If Council still wants to discuss the list of items they certainly can do so, but I do need some direction. There is a revised list in your packet dated February 24th and everyone should have it. The only change is the description of the equipment in public works instead of the power washer we are looking to change it to calcium spreader.
Councilman Greene: We did discuss a few items last week and I do have an additional item and it is similar to the Cedarview Estates problem and it has to do with the Sayrewoods South Little League. They have a severe drainage problem in the area which is affecting the fields and last year the Council funded a study to see what they could do to resolve it. The analysis was done and three suggestions were made; two were expensive, the third one would cost $50,000.00 and would clean up the Deep Run stream channel and partially fill the 100 year flood plain. This I believe would help the Sayrewoods South Little League for a few years, which they will be there because they may possibly move to Mannino Park, but at the same time it will also help the residences in that area, so I would like to see that $50,000 allocated for this project so we help to resolve the severe flooding problem.
Councilman Calogera: I had asked to separate the ordinance for the reverse 911 system and I want to bring it up as a separate item to be voted on.
Himanshu Shah: I know that you wanted to list that item separately, but I did not know that you wanted it introduced tonight. When we prepare all these ordinances there will be a separate ordinance for the reverse 911 system and it will be introduced when we introduce all the other ordinances.
President Butler: What Mr. Shah is saying is that he will prepare this for Monday night and if we are not ready for the entire bond ordinance, the 911 will be separate and we can act on that.
Councilman Calogera: That would be acceptable and I would like the Clerk to have that reflected on the record.
Councilwoman Panos: Something came to light today. Apparently the Township did a project on Riverdale & Brookside Avenues a few years ago. If we need to put more money into that project why is there flooding on Riverdale Avenue. I went there and they said they never had that problem until the work was done up the street. So I would like to be enlightened on this and if it needs additional work and money needs to be put into the capital projects, then I would like to see that work done.
John Vincenti: Lucille, you brought that to our attention today and we are going out tomorrow to look at it to see what is going on there. I would suspect that it has something to do with the amount of rainfall recently and so much related to a deficiency regarding the improvements that were done years ago. We will let you know.
Councilwoman Panos: Then it will not be too late to add monies to this?
Mayor Cannon: At some point, we have to cut this off regarding this year's bonding. We are almost at the limit of being able to do any work this Spring because it takes us a month to get an ordinance and then go to bid and I really think we need to move on what we have proposed, any additional projects we come across can be done separately, but to hold this up will delay it even more.
Councilman Maher: Even though we have reviewed this list in December we are talking about bonding for 3.8 million dollars, can someone help me remember what we discussed on these projects in November? What about the cable?
Mayor Cannon: I can explain about the cable and why we added that on. Over the last couple of months all the cameras but one in the TV Studio have broken down. They are 7-8 years old and they tried to get parts and the parts are no longer available and there was move to go to digital anyway, so at this time in order to have a functioning studio we do need the cameras and it makes sense to go digital.
Councilman Maher: I would like to know what we are buying for 3.8 million dollars and I want someone to take me from top to finish.
President Butler: You want Mr. Shah to go through the entire list?
Himanshu Shah: Generally, the department explains the project and what we will accomplish. The first item, the cable TV we talked about; we talked about the power washer being replaced by a calcium spreader, which is not a problem; the next item is a replacement of a diesel truck. Since Bob Heims is not here I will let John Vincenti go over the municipal complex items.
John Vincenti: The $60,000 is to redo the engineering office with modular cubicles and new file cabinets. The second item is we found some money to purchase some box containers that we are going to be moving some of the storage items from the basement into these containers that are now sitting in public works. The money for this is to get some electric into those containers and some racks so that the files can be properly stored. The next item is construction office improvement.
Mayor Cannon: This item was not recommended.
Councilman Baker: This is a $10,000 office improvement that was approved by the Council? Was this for the improvements in the Clerk's office?
President Butler: No.
John Vincenti: This was a request made by the construction department to redo a portion of their office, it was not approved by Administration.
Councilman Baker: Where is the $10,000 that we put in to protect the Clerk's office with windows?
Alayne Shepler: It is sitting in an ordinance that was passed last year by this governing body.
Councilman Baker: You have to help me, the Council did approve this money for the project and it was passed by the majority of the Council so, what happened?
Alayne Shepler: The Council put in money not only to install a security window, but to install a security gate and panic alarms which have been installed.
Councilman Baker: Stella, you can correct me but have the windows been installed?
Deputy Ward: No, they have not.
Councilman Baker: So people can still come in and throw pens at you and take off their fake leg and throw that at you and on two different occasions did not someone come in and threaten to come back and had to be removed by the police department?
Deputy Ward: Yes, that is correct.
Councilman Baker: Why can't we have this $10,000 which has been approved be used to put the windows in the Clerk's office? If you want me to vote for $60,000 for somebody's new furniture and $6500 for some new storage, we put $10,000 in to protect our people, and I am not voting for that.
Alayne Shepler: Mr. Baker, we have taken a position on this and I speak for both myself and the Mayor, this entire building should be more secure. I will not single out one particular office. The ladies in my office handle passports, they are just as subject to angry residents, to any of the disgruntled people who may come to the municipal building looking for service. This is a building paid for by the taxpayers of Old Bridge and other residents of the State of New Jersey and the United States of America and the last time I looked we were still a free country and the Mayor and I have very strongly that security is very imperative. However, to wall off one particular office and to say that the Clerk's office is more vulnerable than the receptionist who sits surrounded at any given time 250 angry people on a Tuesday because they have had to appear in municipal court is not appropriate. Every single office in the building should be looked at, but I am not going to tell the engineering department who just got carpeting and the carpeting they had was 1000 times more dangerous than the man with the wooden leg. The gate has been installed, those employees in the Clerk's office who I trust as valuable employees and personal friends are no more or less vulnerable that any other municipal employee. The tax office takes in millions of dollars, that is not bullet proof glass. You come up and shake hands with 82 year old Bob Bozian, who is a wonderful worker and hands out lollipops to the little kids, where do we draw the line?
Do we live our lives in fear that we are the ones that are going to be singled out? Is someone more angry because they had to pay $25 for a parking permit or $40 for a passport, where do you draw the line? I am not saying they are not vulnerable, I am saying that the entire building is vulnerable. The receptionist is 1000 times more vulnerable than anybody else, before you get to the cop, you have Joan sitting out there handing out candy or cookies to the kids and trying to keep the nasty people from the court from dismantling the poinsettia in the lobby. I think that you have taken up the wrong cause Mr. Baker, we all need to be safe, but just to wall off one particular office is not right. Most people respond to logic and kindness and most people can be soothe, there are some we have to remove, but for the most part the people who come to this building are seeking a service and that is what we are paid for. I don't think that to say you are going to hold an entire department, the engineering department who are sitting here before you who feel very strongly that they are working in less than ideal conditions and they would be more productive if they did not have to work under those circumstances. I wish we could write a story about all the crazy things that happen during the day, but we would have to publish it under fiction because no one would believe it. This is what you do as a public employee, we don't do windows but we are here to serve the public and the best way to do that is with some type of personal or human touch. I am not going to sacrifice 3 million dollars worth of taxpayers projects because you want a bullet proof glass in the Clerk's office. I am just as passionate about you on the subject, I have worked with these women for nine years and I truly value their safety as well as mine and the Mayors.
Councilman Baker: I was not prepared for CNN Point-Counter Point, but I do agree with one thing that you said, the building is not secure enough. I don't agree that you are as passionate as I am about security or you would not have said the things you said and where do we draw the line, we draw the line at security for the people in the building. One thing you were correct on is that we should not stop at the Clerk's office, but it is a starting point, a $10,000 starting point, we should start at the tax office, the receptionist desk, this building is not secure enough. If Administration is saying that I am off on a security rampage, and you would rather have furniture than protect the people then let the voters decide, I am not for furniture I am for security of the building.
Himanshu Shah: The next item on the complex list was the reverse 911 and we have discussed this at length. The next item is refurnishing the collection area in the finance/tax office, this is the area in front where there are four tables, we need to modify that and it is somewhat security related because if you are sitting in the back you cannot see over the top, it is too high so we have to replace those partitions and tables with lower ones and the cost is $10,000.
Councilman Baker: What are we buying for $10,000?
Himanshu Shah: It is for replacement furniture and panels. You know that the tax office collects not $5,000, but $50,000 a day and no one seems to take it too seriously.
Councilman Baker: Okay, let's start with the tax office.
Himanshu Shah: The next list is in recreation and I am going to let Tom discuss that, the golf course and Mannino Park, those are the two items.
Tom Badcock: Under the golf course fees it would include design fees for the design architect, the building architect who would design the club house; the engineering fees and the inspection and the construction and administration fees. We are also looking at with the MUA a grey water service to do the irrigation which would save a lot of money and would be more efficient and help us to qualify for some grant money toward the development of that.
Councilman Maher: When will the water study be done?
Tom Badcock: We have already done a lot of preliminary work, I am just waiting for the final study, which was supposed to be sent today.
Councilman Maher: So we will know if we have enough water for this course shortly?
Tom Badcock: We know that we need to evaluate alternative irrigation supplies and that is what we are doing.
Councilman Maher: So the $620,000 here is the design fees, architectural fees, professional services fees and construction fees for the course.
Tom Badcock: The course architect is a different architect that does the building it is not the same person.
Councilman Redmond: Does this include the overseeing of the development of the course?
Tom Badcock: Yes.
Councilman Hoff: Have you got any firm estimates on what it is going to cost to build the golf course?
Tom Badcock: Yes, between 7-8 million dollars. We also have the estimates that you have read for two years on what it will raise in revenues to the town. The numbers are factual Mr. Hoff.
Councilman Hoff: The numbers around this town change very quick.
Tom Badcock: The numbers are not done by me, they are done by an engineer that you hired. We have had two major studies the KPMG and the McLaughlin Group to show you the revenues that are anticipated from this project. You have had this information for over two years.
Councilman Hoff: I know and I am still not pleased with it.
Councilman Maher: When will the water analysis be finished?
Tom Badcock: We do not want to go with the regular water, we want to go with the grey water because it is more economical and it makes more sense environmentally. It is just a matter of meeting with Rocky Donatelli and the MUA engineer, which we are trying to set up within the next couple of weeks and I think that we will get some answers. They feel it is a very realistic thing to be able to do and a great thing for the community.
Councilman Testino: Just to be clear, the committee and the Council have authorized a hydrologist who have gone out to survey the available water sources and we would either have to acquire those rights to get above the 3 million gallons per month and we think that we can sink a well for about $100,000 and we need permits for that. The 3 million gallons per month will not be enough, the alternative to that is we may have to buy from the MUA which Mr. Shah will tell you is not feasible, but the alternative that is feasible is grey water acquisition for watering most of the course which can be done by municipal agreement between the two entities to allow the transmission authority to devote water into the course through a treatment of this grey water. This is a common practice out in California and Arizona and this is how they make courses go out there. Also, in talking with the engineers there may be grants available through the state to help accomplish this type of system here in Old Bridge and it would make the course feasible financially. Those discussions are under way and I am hoping to have a small group meeting to get the details and lay out some ground work so the committee can have a full meeting on it. How long it will take to accomplish this, I don't know.
Tom Badcock: With regard to Mannino Park, this $185,000 will go towards the infrastructure and Phase I and possibly also the tee off for the YMCA if it arrives at this site.
Councilman Maher: Is this the Master Plan?
Tom Badcock: No, this is not the Master Plan, we have money for the that. We have $352,000 already for infrastructure and YMCA or Community Center, this is additional money for that. We have about $50,000+ in two ordinances that you have passed over the past two years for the Master Plan, this is not Master Plan work that is already in.
Councilman Maher: We have $300,000 for the YMCA which is separate than Mannino Park, correct, we are not putting them together?
Tom Badcock: Right.
Councilman Maher: What is Phase I infrastructure?
Tom Badcock: It is to bring the roads, electric, sewer and water lines into the park. You have a 165 acre park and obviously to develop that park you have to bring in all these utilities into the park.
Councilman Maher: How many phases do we have here?
Tom Badcock: I am just guessing based on what we put in that park, you could have five phases, I have no idea. You have to get input from the Community, the Recreation Advisory Board and the long range Master Plan, which may be 10-15 years in the making as well as the relative cost estimate and then the Council can decide how much they will move forward on the various phases.
Councilman Maher: When will the RFP's go out for the entire proposal of Mannino Park?
John Vincenti: That will go out the middle of next week.
Tom Badcock: I just want to say that John will have to do an addendum to this if the YMCA is going to be a part of the park because he is sending it out without the YMCA included.
Councilman Testino: Why would you do that? Why not do it as an alternative?
Tom Badcock: We can do it that way.
John Vincenti: As far as the request for the YMCA we are going to ask for it with alternatives, one with the YMCA and one without the YMCA, that is for the Mannino Park Master Plan.
Councilman Maher: That is great, I am all for that and I think we should move on that.
Mayor Cannon: First we have to have a contract signed by our next door neighbor Perth Amboy.
Councilman Redmond: I made the phone call that I was required to make.
Councilman Maher: So we are moving forward on the RFP for Mannino Park next week correct?
John Vincenti: Yes.
Councilman Baker: A point of order, Mr. Butler, because of the time of the evening and because my sense is this is going to go on for some time I would like to hear from the public and send them home at a reasonable time, especially the young people who need to go to school and the people who have been waiting here for 3 hours.
Councilman Testino: I agree.
Councilman Calogera: Good suggestion.
Public Portion
Kevin Lyons: We are trying to organize a contest for bike and skateboarding over in Veterans Park. We were told by Parks Director, Tom Badcock that all we needed to do was put together a proposal of exactly what we planned on doing. We did put it together and submitted it and an issue turned up about insurance. There is no issue because it is the same kids that ride there all the time, it's free registration, it is just our chance to go there and have free give away by people who are willing to sponsor it.
Tom Badcock: I received the proposal and I spoke with both Mr. Lyons and the gentleman who is sponsoring it. I told the owner of the bike shop that we would like a full report on this but we could not do it until we checked our insurance to make sure everything was in order and the people who are sponsoring the event had insurance as well. Alayne Shepler is the one who can answer these questions. As I told you I would like to see this event, but I do not make the final decision.
Councilman Testino: Is Alayne looking into getting costs for riders and additional insurance? We can get insurance, but there is probably additional costs for it and if they have to pay it, then perhaps they have to charge a small fee.
Alayne Shepler: Mr. Badcock had mentioned this to me that someone had wanted to do an outside event at our skate park. Quite frankly, we changed insurance companies and we are now part of the Municipal Excess Liability Insurance Fund. The skate parks are a particularly vulnerable issue to insure and it would require some type of special permission and I don't even have a lock-in for our regular operation and this would be well above and beyond. So briefly, from what Mr. Badcock told me it sounded like it was out of the reach of what we could do logistically at our skate park.
Mike -----: It is not going to be like chaos. On a daily basis you have a lot of different riders on the course, by having a contest, one rider on the course at a time, if anything that is safer and the rider will be judged one at a time and we will police what is going on, so if anything we are making it safer to ride there than on a normal day.
Tom Badcock: We understand that. Unfortunately we have to deal with the JIF and the other insurance carriers. Once we get an okay as I explained whether we do it in the Spring or Fall, when Ms. Shepler gets the okay, it will be approved, but you just cannot have people come in with sponsorships and bring in tents and equipment and do something without making sure that you have the proper insurance coverage. Your point is well taken one person at a time on the course is safer, but you still have to comply with insurance. You have to make sure that we have the proper coverage because if someone gets hurt the entire town is on the line because it is our park not yours.
Alayne Shepler: I would like a full written proposal from you as to exactly what you intend to do there so that I could in fact present it to our carrier. It would also assume that when anyone from the outside uses our facilities we ask for a certificate of insurance, which is a special insurance policy which names us as additional insured and I am sure the JIF would want something in excess of 2 million dollars and it would be a one day type of coverage which you can purchase. Any outside functions that use our facility have to provide us with the certificate of insurance. If you can get that to me I will be happy to work on it for you.
Councilman Calogera: Is this a profit making endeavor on the part of private persons?
Alayne Shepler: I don't know that is why I am asking for a proposal.
Councilman Calogera: Are you going to be charging admission or participation fees?
Mike: It is local businesses sponsoring an event. It is promoting our businesses, like giving away a product, but it is not a negative thing.
Councilman Calogera: Are you going to be selling your products there, because if you are it's no longer a community based thing and we will have to rethink this matter.
Mike: I don't think it is the right thing to do to turn it into a profit making thing, but as advertisement for our businesses then we could benefit from that. If anything, if the insurance is too expensive we will then have to charge some type of admission to help raise the money for the insurance.
Councilman Calogera: Once you do that then I am sure finance will tell you that there will be other problems because we are going to be a part of whatever you are going to do.
Mike: I don't know if you guys are familiar with an organization call the BMBL they have tracks in Howell, Egg Harbor Township and they are a bicycle-racing event non-profit organization and what they do is charge a race fee and maybe we can get them to sponsor us.
Alayne Shepler: Just so we are all clear on this, we could not allow them to charge a fee there because you are using a taxpayer facility and it would not fly with the State.
Councilman Testino: I think Alayne has given us the best course of action. I would like to see if we could work through this and try to give them a hand and perhaps invite them back in a few weeks to see where we are at. You will have to work through Administration.
Mike: Now that I am a little more educated in this I can go to other municipalities that have these type of BMX events and races and get an outline from them and see how they approach the situation and maybe we could use that as a blueprint for our event.
Councilman Redmond: I just want to say that I think this is a good idea and I would like to see if we can do something to help them out.
Councilwoman Panos: Do you get the general feeling that we want this to happen? Just follow the program, do your homework and I am sure that everyone up here will be more than happy to help you.
Himanshu Shah: One suggestion I have is that maybe you can work out with the Recreation Department and have them sponsor you, obviously your business cannot be named or advertised but on the basis of insurance it may be easier if the Recreation Department sponsors the event.
Councilman Hoff: I admire your proposal and these people have told you what to do. I am going to suggest that you get a local organization such as the Lions, a Church group, the Elks to sponsor you and provide the insurance and then come before this Council and I am sure that there will be no problem.
Engineering Department
Edward Lauer: I have been designated by the Engineering Department to read this open letter to you:
Council Members: In light of Councilman Baker's public position regarding the proposed 2003 capital projects budget, we feel that it is necessary to bring a number of facts to the attention of the Council. Our drafting tables in our department are from the late 60's and some of our file cabinets are from that era too. All desks in our department are usually obtained from other departments kind of like recycled when other departments replace their old stuff with new. We currently utilize cardboard boxes to hold our files and they are kind of unsightly as well as a fire hazard at best. We feel an upgrade to the modular units would enhance our productivity and our efficiency in the office and they would look nice. New file cabinets would serve to eliminate a lot of clutter in the office, we have a lot of maps that are rolled up and tucked away and they would last a lot longer if they were laid flat. Despite these less than ideal conditions, the department has drastically improved work efficiency, this is reflected in our department's cash flow which has increased to what appears to be a 54% increase. This increase was realized in spite of the conditions outlined above and working a portion of the year with one less engineer. Had that position been filled the entire year the increase would have been higher. In reviewing these facts, especially the increased revenue, we are asking that the Council approve the engineering office improvements as recommended by the Mayor. These office improvements will allow us to serve the public more efficiently and increase morale. We would normally not take such public position, however, we feel that the public comments made at last Monday's Council meeting by Mr. Baker in an equally public forum needed a response. Mr. Baker's suggested that the Council eliminate our budget request until such time as the Mayor authorized certain improvements in the Clerk's office. Many of us sympathize with the situation in the Clerk's office, however we feel our departments situation should not be linked with that. To do so may inadvertently strain our current working relationship with that department. We have always worked harmoniously with that department and will continue to do so. We ask that the Council review our budget request based solely on its merits and act accordingly. Signed: John Vincenti, Pinder Sumal, Lindsay Malmstadt, David Hall, Mary Chin, Joseph Carney, Barry Bowers, Lois Passe, Robert Heims and, myself, Edward Lauer.
Smoking Ordinance
Lou Valentino: Regarding this ordinance, there are two smoking ordinances that are in effect right now, Ordinance #42-98 which deals with the users, minors and underage smokers; Ordinance #43-02 deals with the pushers, the businesses that are selling the cigarettes to the minors so we need to separate the issues. There is a proposal being moved up to weaken the ordinance. We had Mr. Baker state last week that you did not believe this was a problem in the township and I would like to know how you reached that point.
Councilman Baker: If you wish to use your 3 minutes in hearing my response I will do so, but I also think that you have to direct your questions to the chair.
Mr. Valentino: I believe that there should be a hanging of the sign after the first offense that is because that is what is keeping the business men on their toes. If they know they are going to have a second or third chance they are not going to be as diligent if they know that they are on the line. The businesses have put forth an argument that their employees are young, et cetera. When I was in the Navy, the captain held the ultimate responsibility for the crew, in that analogy the store owner is also responsible and basically you are diluting the law if you take the hanging of the sign. The point is the sign is the meat of the law and if you take that away you might as well get rid of the whole ordinance.
Councilman Calogera: We have the signed proposed to hang for 90 days, I made an offer to reduce the sign hanging time down to one month, so if anything, the 90 days which is a reduction from six months down to three months is somewhat not as strict for enforcement but still goes way beyond what you are offering in your proposal.
Mr. Valentino: My proposal is after the first offense, your proposal is after the second offense.
Councilman Calogera: I apologize, but I was put up here to try and be fair and doing legislation with the rest of my colleagues and I really think what is important is when you do make legislation that it be fair for both sides and make it a workable and enforceable type of law and that is what I think we are getting to.
President Butler: Any further discussion by the public? Seeing no hands I close the public portion.
Capital Projects (continued)
Himanshu Shah: The biggest portion of our capital projects is always the capital projects, the curbing and resurfacing. In that we have one project Throckmorton Lane which has $199,000 grant and there is the realignment of Disbrow Road which is above and beyond the curbing and surfacing. Rocky is here so if you have any questions related to that project he can answer you and John can explain the engineering project. To finish it up the last $500,000 for the Lambertson property we have already done so it is not necessary so we will be doing the total bond in the area of 3 million dollars.
John Vincenti: Under drain improvements which is the bottom line item, we requested $150,000, it was recommended for $75,000. For Disbrow Road we originally requested $130,000. We contacted DOT to try an improve the intersection of Rt. 34 and Disbrow Road and they punted that right back to us. So basically what we can do is go back to the consultant and expand the project by taking the improvements all the way out to Rt. 34 through the curve, past the health club, so that project is going to be expanded if approved. At the intersection of Disbrow and Rt. 34 we are going to fix the hump only on the one side, which is the health club side and appears to be the worse of the two.
Councilman Calogera: I want to touch base on Valley Vale and Ticetown. I want to stress my disappointment. Our seniors have a lot of trouble going from the Rotary building to the shopping centers and I really am going to push for a traffic light to be put in there.
John Vincenti: The reason why this did not make it to the list this year is because as it stands right now I don't believe it will meet the DOT warrants for the new intersection. We are in the process of working with traffic and safety to gather some accident data and if it shows that there is a high incidence of traffic accidents there, then we can make a new request to the DOT to try and meet a different type of warrant. It was not a good idea to commit $150,000 to that now until we have all the answers.
Councilman Testino: Can we get a school warrant there?
John Vincenti: If you are going with those other warrants, you should go with more than one and maybe we could combine the warrants and it should help us.
Mayor Cannon: We have tried twice to get this and have been refused twice.
Councilman Redmond: I have two comments on these road improvements. With regard to Throckmorton Lane, Phase III, we have this grant for $199,000, does that pay off the bond?
Councilman Testino: I thought that was $250,000.
Councilman Redmond: So we are bonding for $250,000 on top of that grant, correct? So the cost of the project is what?
Himanshu Shah: No, it reduces the total bond by that amount.
Councilman Redmond: So the $199,000 pays off most of the $250,000 bond. Now with regard to the $262,000, what is the $12,500?
Himanshu Shah: In addition to the actual construction costs there are other expenses, that is for the additional costs.
Councilman Redmond: With regard to the road re-striping for $10,000 I am a little disappointed. One of the biggest problems we have in this town is knowing which lane to be in, the striping is horrible.
John Vincenti: As we researched some previous bonding we noted that there is a lot of money still available for this project, so we will be doing it.
Councilwoman Panos: John, I see that your department requested $200,000 for traffic lights at 516 & Sherwood, I want to know why it was requested because that is where the ball field is and a light was put up there a few years back, is there a problem?
Mayor Cannon: Why did we put it in or why did we not fund it?
Councilwoman Panos: Why did engineering put it in and then why was it not funded?
Mayor Cannon: Because first of all we don't think it is functioning right and secondly, the land acquisition to put in a permanent light was off the wall and we just felt it was not of the highest priority at this time and the light that is there does offer some protection.
Councilwoman Panos: I just want to be assured that there is no problem because the kids go to the ballfield there.
Mayor Cannon: The light that is there is going to stay and at some point, we are expected to fund a permanent light which may cost us a lot of money.
Councilman Maher: With regard to the drainage improvements, Higgins Road and Rt. 516, is this going to be under the sump pumps and under drains at Society Hill?
John Vincenti: That is one of the locations.
Councilman Maher: I drove through there this morning it is very bad. I want to have assurance that I can tell the people that it is going to be fixed.
John Vincenti: The only thing I want to caution you about is right now that problem is caused in large part by a sump pump discharge. The discharge is at that building on private property. Our work will be confined only to the right of way. We will extend the line to that property, but it is up to that property owner to tie the line in to his property. I don't know how we can force him to do that, so the missing link will be that last 20 feet between the edge of the gutter and his house.
Rocky Donatelli: I don't see any problem, once that line is completed, the problem will be eliminated.
Councilman Testino: As I understand the discussion based on this evening, Lambertson is already done so that $500,000 is out, so we are looking at a total bonding of $3,373,000.
Himanshu Shah: $3,606,000.
Councilman Testino: What did I miss, am I on the old one? The cap that you put in is the 3 million, is that something that you derived based on the budget and something the Council has been obeying and I don't see why we should have the golf course in here because the golf course is anticipated to pay for itself . I was going to ask for an updated report based on the winter that we had as to what we need to do additionally to bring those roads up to snuff. That is going to be my priority in voting on this bond issue. What we have to do to fix our roads after this terrible winter and is going to be a number one priority.
Himanshu Shah: First of all, pothole repair will not be qualified under the capital improvements.
Councilman Testino: Maybe not pothole repair but resurfacing will be. I want you all to take my point seriously here, let's get back to the bread and butter of what we are supposed to do up here. I don't want to be inside the cap with the golf course and we should not be bootstrapped inside this every year stuff. Since we have been hearing that the golf course will pay itself off, we should be back to adding some stuff in as opposed to deleting. I want the Sayrewoods South Little League field done, Mr. Greene is absolutely right about this. Let's readjust the priorities on the 3 million dollar cap.
Alayne Shepler: Mr. Testino, I think there is one thing we are all forgetting, we are now in fiscal year 2003, this is March 3rd we will be putting out our budget request sheets to start preparing for SFY 2004. We can only do so much, the arbitrage laws for Himanshu's purposes require that these projects realistically be done in one year, and we know that does not happen.
If we are doing a million dollars worth of roads and $600,000 worth of curbs, there is only so much we can do and Rocky is still working on last year's contract and as soon as the weather breaks we will start and be back out there again. You have to plan realistically and the reason we are saying that we don't want to do the Sherwood light is because we would like to see the Owens light work first. I don' t want to bond for something this year that I am not going to touch for the next two years.
Councilman Testino: I hate to bang heads with you Alayne because I know that you have been around for a long time, I know that even if I make this request and I get six votes, administration might not do it anyway because that the way it has been on other bonding issues.
I am telling you where I am placing my priorities. If I give you the money and you don't spend it well then you can answer to the people who have the problems with the holes in the streets.
Alayne Shepler: I am saying, you can only do so much during a season. Rocky has not been able to finish last year's contracts.
Councilman Testino: The debate has been officially opened by me, it will continue through the vote on this ordinance and I will continue to stress it. If you and the mayor choose not to follow through on these priorities as I am setting them, then so be it and we will have that debate publicly.
Mayor Cannon: Let me say something, one of the reasons we are still working on last years money is because we got delayed last spring and we did not have a bond ordinance until late April, which meant by the time we could go out to bid, it was the end of June. We are going to have the same situation this time if we don't get moving on it. Going back many years ago, things were bonded for and they were not addressed and we had money laying there for years, we tried to do it in a reasonable time frame so that we can finish the project if not within a year at least 18 months but you have to keep in mind that these projects even though we do get outside contractors they have to be managed by our staff, inspected by our staff and there is just so much that can be done, especially when we are more than six months into the fiscal year.
Councilman Testino: I just counted three projects on this list that we go back three or four bond ordinances to say this is where the money is. Now you telling me this is not your standard operating procedure. We are talking about the YMCA and Mannino Park and using monies from prior bond ordinances. Now you're saying we can do it in certain instances and we cannot do it in others.
Mayor Cannon: In certain projects you have to bond a little each year because you cannot do it all in one year because they are on-going projects. You don't want to bond 3-4 million for roads within an 18 month period, when you can only do a million dollars worth of roads.
Councilman Testino: Maybe I am not seeing this right.
Councilman Greene: I wholeheartedly support Mr. Testino in this debate. We brought up different items that I am concerned about. I am not sure what the problem is with the light at Sherwood Lane, but I tell you that I as well as the residents of Sayrewoods South get annoyed when they are backed up to Gaub Road in the morning because that light is red at the post office.
All I am asking for is someone to say Rich, I recognize the problem and we will do what we can to take care of it. Maybe it is a matter of calling the County and have them regulate the timing of that light. I am not an expert, but it is a problem. Another thing, there is a right hand lane on Sherwood Lane into Rt. 516, why is there a sign that says "No right on red", it should not be, you should be able to turn because there is a lane there. That is my position on the light. All I am asking is for administration to get out there and do it so that light is regulated the proper way.
Another thing, with regard to Sayrewoods South Little League and the residents of that area, the $50,000 for the drainage will benefit everyone. In conversation with Mr. Donatelli , he felt that there were roads in this town that were beat-up and maybe the fix is more than a pothole. Maybe we should address those roads and I agree with Mr. Testino that we should add in some extra money to take care of these problems because we have to address this. I thought by the end of this evening we would have addressed all the problems and been able to vote on this bond issue. I also want to express my opinion on the notification (911) system, whatever happens tonight, I think we should address the notification system and get that going.
Councilman Calogera: That is why I separated the 911 because I thought there might be problems with the capital budget. I agree with the Sayrewoods South Little League issue, if we are going to condense it into Mannino Park, maybe we should do that as soon as possible. I think that we should consider moving into Mannino Park and start developing it so we don't have this problem. I also agree that the roads have to be a priority.
Himanshu Shah: I think you have to keep in mind when you are authorizing all of these projects that we need supervision and review and we have limited persons that can do all of those things otherwise we are going to have contractor who not up to the job and if you look at the last five years of the road projects and the quality of the work it is because they are constantly supervised. The contractors are out there ready to take whatever amount we want to spend, but we have to be wise in spending that money. I can understand Councilman Testino's feelings about instead of spending money on the golf course right now that we do road projects, but if we continue to debate we will be in fiscal year 2004 and we will be looking at 2004 projects. Maybe we should put this off and just start all over in 2004.
Councilman Testino: I did not say don't spend the money on the golf course, I just said don't put it in the cap.
Himanshu Shah: I understand but the cap was not established by me. It was established by the Council. This is the limitations that you have put on yourself. What I am suggesting is that if you want to do a separate golf course completely we need to establish the golf course utility and we need to start working on an ordinance establishing the utility and doing the entire project under that heading. Right now if you don't have an established utility, you will have to do it under the township and you will need a down payment.
Councilman Testino: That is why I want to talk about this outside of this forum.
President Butler: Mr. Donatelli wants to respond to Mr. Calogera's inquiry.
Rocky Donatelli: As far as our road program, it is working good. We do so much curbing, so much paving each year and that is the only way you can do it on the amount of money allocated to us. The problem is that we had a free ride for about five years with not bad weather. Now this year, I have to do a lot of milling and stuff that I did not figure on, in fact I spoke with Alayne today and we are going to have get some money for certain roads that are impassable with the potholes. I could patch it and tomorrow the holes are back. There are a number of these roads that I would like to mill and top them to make them safe. That is the only thing extra that I am looking for. If we don't do that I am throwing good money after bad and it is not the right way to run a program. The big problem we have with the curbing and road program, is that it is taking too long to get these bonds. I am just going to ask the Council that if you have any road that you think we should be working on, not to say it will be done, but give me a list and I will do my best.
Councilwoman Panos: I understand the need to get this through. We have to prioritize the roads, they are a big priority, and we don't want to hold this up. My question about 516 and Sherwood I accept that answer and am satisfied but I had to ask why it was in there and I have to ask about the timing on it. I don't want things held up because the roads are a big priority for us.
Councilman Redmond: I agree with Mr. Testino that there are a lot of nuts and bolts things that get neglected in our effort to get things done. The fact that we have the roads in these conditions and Rocky has been doing a great job up till now, and I disagree with everyone I think that the more we give him the more he will be able to do and he will get all the work done. The fact of the matter is there are some things that need to be addressed. There was $50,000 that was turned down for drainage study on Perrine Road and we had a whole group of people here tonight looking for that.
Alayne Shepler: That has been funded.
Councilman Redmond: I think the ordinance looks good. I agree that we should not include the $600,000 in the cap for the golf course so that we can get some other things done.
Himanshu Shah: That is your limit, if you want to exceed it, that is your call.
Councilman Redmond: I just want to make sure that we get everything done.
Councilman Baker: I would like to applaud Alayne for recognizing that the building is not secure enough and I believe that government and good leadership is about compromise. I also believe that the input from the engineering department should not be ignored. Ask me where I draw the line on security for people in this complex and I draw the line here, there is $3 million dollars in this package and there is not one dollar for security. I feel that 3% of that amount for security seems fit to make the building more secure, not for the Clerk's office specifically, but somewhere to start making the building more secure. Three percent will only increase it by $90,000, but let's start somewhere. Let's just not sit here agreeing with each other that the building is not secure enough.
Councilman Testino: I have seen these file cabinet solutions where township's have purchased storage bins and put them in the public works as temporary fixes, you come back 30 years later and they are still there with the files in them and with no one knowing how to access them and public works having to manage them because they had them in their yards. I can point to some neighboring communities that have them. Maybe we should go a little more global, and I know this is a cheap fix, I am not saying not to do it, but we should start looking a warehousing or archiving somehow all the records of this township and it may mean a warehouse facility, but I would like to know the long term view. Use the containers, but let's starting looking, we need another building for our storage.
Alayne Shepler: Part of the problem and I know Rose-Marie has looked into this, all of the solutions for off-site storage which a lot of townships have gone to, are incredibly expensive and just to put up a shell quite frankly is not the answer. You need heat, air and any number of things that would be required for storage. We continue to look and Rose-Marie through her Clerk's Association continues to discuss alternative off-site and archival retrieval, and Himanshu has looked into microfilming and other electronic means.
Himanshu Shah: The real solution is if we can archive by electronic form it is the only savior, but in order to do that we need to hire an entire group of people to work on this solely.
Councilman Testino: I know, but I am telling you this stuff is going to get moved to the trailer and 30 years from now some lawyer like myself will be picking through it.
Himanshu Shah: When we went out to bid for archiving all of our records, the cost came back at $2 million dollars.
Councilman Testino: I know it is cost exorbitant, but we have to look at the long term solution.
President Butler: Mr. Shah are we through the process now?
Himanshu Shah: No, all we have done is discuss the list, now I am hearing changes but I am not hearing the consensus to go forward with the list or to modify the list.
Councilman Redmond: I believe it is $50,000 for Sayrewoods South Little League.
Councilman Baker: $90,000 for security, but let's leave it up to administration as to how where they can begin to make the building more secure. I am trying to reach out here.
Mayor Cannon: I would like to add my two cents. You can spend as much money as you want making the building secure, but you have to realize that it is a public building, we are here to serve the public and as long as I am around we are not going to be doing it behind glass windows. I am more interested in getting a notification system for our public and to make sure our public is safe.
Councilman Testino: Why don't we talk about amending the bond ordinance to add the $350,000-$400,000 for the top coating and the milling of the roads.
Alayne Shepler: You have to call it road reconstruction. That was my discussion with Rocky, obviously potholes are not a bondable item, but to mill out large stretches of road you can bond. If you want to talk about safety issues, take a look at our parking lot out there and that is something we are going to have to address.
Councilman Testino: What I am saying we will vote on the golf course separately, spread out the money into the other priority items and then we vote on it anyway you want to. Take out the things we mentioned, add the bread and butter items and you will be under the $3 million and we can do it.
President Butler: There has been a lot of discussion here tonight. Rocky talked about road reconstruction so we are talking about $200,000. What needs to be done between now and Monday is to get in touch with Mr. Shah so that we can go on Monday.
Mayor Cannon: It costs money to go to the bond counsel and have him draw it up. We need to know tonight exactly how much you want to bond for. You stated $50,000 for Sayrewoods South; $90,000 for security for the building;
Councilwoman Panos: I have a problem with $90,000 for security. What is your evidence that there is a problem here?
Councilman Baker: I am going on the recommendation of our administrator who lives and works and says the building is not secure enough.
Councilwoman Panos: I don't agree or disagree I want to know the proof.
Councilman Baker: The proof is the environment that we live in; the proof is the newspapers; the proof is the radio and television and what happens every single day. I am saying with this budget we should address security if we are addressing roads, furniture. I picked 3% because I think it is reasonable. You should not be able to walk into the Mayor's office and just say hello.
Mayor Cannon: Yes, you should.
President Butler: What other specific numbers do we have to give Mr. Shah this evening?
Councilman Maher: I want to put some money into the town center street scape. I see the departments request, but I see no money.
Mayor Cannon: We are still looking for grants.
Councilman Maher: Put money in. If we don't get a grant we don't get it and if we do we can replace it. The amount is $1.2 million dollars, that is what the department requested.
Alayne Shepler: No, that is not from John, it is from our planner. You also have to remember there is an application going in across the street, so let's see what develops on the other side of the road.
Councilman Maher: I would like to see $100,000 in for that.
Councilman Greene: What is that for Dennis?
Councilman Maher: That is for parkway, median, streets, trees, brick paver islands; crosswalks, bikeways, sidewalks.
Alayne Shepler: That was the total reconstruction under Sam's original proposal. I just want to point out the reason that you imposed that $3 million dollar cap because it was the amount of debt service we were retiring. All of these projects are certainly worthwhile, but I think you have to realize what your overall debt service is amounting to. You are talking about $17 million dollars for land purchases. We have already put $500,000 in Lambertson. When you are looking at this I hope that you are looking at this globally and I was absolutely serious when I said you have to consider the time frame. Please do not ask us to produce that which we cannot. Rocky has a finite staff and his program has been working. I have been here 9 years and I have seen more accomplished in that time. When I got here you were working off bond ordinances from 1985, projects that had never been touched. This road program requires that our inspectors go out there and you cannot farm that out to an outside agency, you will never get the project that you want.
Councilman Testino: We are taking the golf course out and adding in the items we have discussed. I would like to see it run as a utility that is the way it has always been explained and that is the way I would like to see it done.
Alayne Shepler: I just have one other comment to make to Council before they give us final direction. Bond ordinances require six affirmative votes, if we do not have six affirmative votes from this governing body do not ask us to prepare an ordinance that is going to cost us money with the bond counsel.
Councilman Testino: We have a week to think about it Mr. Butler.
President Butler: What Himanshu and I are asking is that we need to know your concerns tonight.
Councilman Testino: I think you are asking the impossible, there has to be some discussion and lobbying before we make a decision.
Councilman Baker: I will vote for it now with the $50,000 for Sayrewoods fields; $90,000 for security; add some more money for drainage improvements.
Mayor Cannon: I would also strongly suggest that if you have roads you want paved that you get them into Himanshu, they have to go into the ordinance.
Councilman Maher: I want the $100,000 added for the street scapes.
Alayne Shepler: That is precipito |