RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD
MINUTES OF MARCH 27, 2002
Janet Phillips, Chairperson, called the meeting to order at 7:40 pm. She welcomed new members Tom Stead and Frank Piccillo.
ATTENDANCE
In attendance at this meeting were: Tom Badcock, Richard Bezeg, Nancy Calogera, Fran DiRocco, Joe DeSimone, Joe Dunn, Denis Kilduff, Janet Phillips, Frank Piccillo, Tom Stead, and councilmen Bill Baker and Richard Greene. Gerard Haran arrived at 7:50 PM Also present to take the minutes was Carol Norberg. Absent from this meeting was: Barbara Felice, Tim Kozlak, Robert Pepe, Joe Pruiti, Kevin Ruffler, Paul Taguer and Ed Testino. The student representatives were also absent. Visitors to this meeting were Al DiRocco and Kevin Calogera.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
The approval of the February minutes will be postponed until the next meeting when everyone has time to review them as they were just handed out.
OLD BUSINESS
Lake Lucerne:
A map of the lake was in everyone's folders and shows what the Township owns. Janet requested that this spring or summer the lake be cleaned up and the broken dock be taken out. Tom states he has already discussed this with Will Fanner, the Assistant Parks Director and it is planned for this spring. Janet then made mention that perhaps it would be best to leave the lake as is until the beachfront is done. At that time there would be parking and police patrols. Then perhaps it can be opened for picnics and fishing if possible.
Joe DeSimone thanks Janet for looking into it. Nancy Calogera suggest that volunteer groups such as scouts or church confirmation groups be given the opportunity for community service to help clean up the area. Tom mentions that the Township needs to be very careful with that as it is a body of water and that Park personnel and adult supervision would need to be there. Bill Baker suggests that the leagues in town (e.g.., Cheesequake Baseball) would welcome volunteers to help them out if community service is needed.
Golf Course:
Janet states that she would like to suggest the restart of the golf sub-committee with Joe Dunn, Gerard Haran and another member to take the place of Joe Rumolo who was on it last year. This would be a citizens group to go out and talk to other golf courses and get citizens input to come up with some reasons for having a township golf course to present to council. Bill Baker asks if a needs survey was done. Tom explains that one was done years ago regarding the Rose Farm and the results clearly showed a golf course was highly desirable. Bill asks if the results from this survey could be handed out at the next meeting.
Richard Greene states that he has been on the council for a couple of years and the golf course has been discussed for years. After the survey, a study was done that was positive. Apparently, it wasn't good enough so council did another study. It was positive. Rich states that he supports a YMCA, but all of a sudden council members can take the money that was appropriated in a timely fashion for the golf course and put $350,000 in for the YMCA. He wants to know where is the study, where is the property, where is the feasibility study, where is the plan for the YMCA? There is nothing. He thinks it is very unfair. When he spoke up about the Sayrewoods South Little League and the drainage problems, he was told they can't give money to correct it because a study must be done. Rich thinks this attitude is hypocritical. When it is good for a handful of people, its OK. But if they don't want the golf course after everything has been properly researched, then they squash it. He thinks it is very unfortunate.
Nancy Calogera states that the financials given by Himanshu are very confusing. Tom states that you must listen to the people who know about golf course management which is unfamiliar to Himanshu. Tom refers everyone to look at the studies done by the professionals and to rely on their information. Tom and Richard Greene explain the payback period. Gerard wants to address Janet's statement when she opened up the discussion. Janet says it appears to her from watching the council meetings they are hesitant because there is not enough public support for it. Gerard says we can do everything all over again, but it would be a delaying tactic. Joe Dunn says the issue is that we have the land, we are paying for it anyway. We are buying it anyway. If we can make this land an asset for the town as a golf course. It will raise the town's image, would raise property values. Joe feels that this is a no-brainer, the town must go forward with this. He does agree with Janet that there are people in this town that are not believing these two studies that it would make money for the town. We must show them that it is true. If it is going to lose money, he would be the first one to say not to do it.
Tom states that he has already contacted two golf courses who are making money. Tom states that this is his job as the town professional, it is not something that citizens should be doing. Janet states she doesn't want to step on his toes. Tom states we have $50,000 worth of studies done by two professionals in the field. In 13 years, nobody has ever asked him to amortize the land we have used for parks.
Bill asks if the majority of the people in this room want the golf course. It seems to him that we are trying to convince some of us here. We are spending a lot of time here trying to convince each other if it is a good idea. Bill asks if we have advised the council the board's opinions on this matter. Gerard and Denis Kilduf states that we have advised council in writing twice. There was a unanimous vote last year. Gerard gets the feeling that it is not politically expedient to some council members. He feels that no matter what we do here, it will not make a difference. Bill Baker disagrees. Bill cited that the golf course requires three more councilmen votes. There are nine councilmen. Five votes are needed. We have the vote of two members here. You need to canvas the other councilman and stand up to them and let them know how you feel and you will not vote for them if they don't give their votes. Janet says that this is what she has been saying. We need to show the council that the majority of the town residents want it. They need to know that people want to support the decision to build a golf course. Gerard says the greatest fear of the people is that the politicians will get their hands on it and mismanage it. That is their fear. Gerard would tell them that the idea should be to have a third party manage it this way the town could audit them. From a property value standpoint, this will make the value of the homes go up. In terms of aesthetics, it is a beautiful landscaping. In terms of impact on traffic, there are only so many foursomes that could go out. The impact on services would be very light. It has a useful lifetime of 100 years plus, if you want to talk about capital investment and the amortization of fixed assets over a period of time. Once these things are explained and understood, if anybody still wouldn't want a golf course there, is inexplicable to me unless there were ulterior moves involved.
Janet Phillips suggests that we move on. Bill Baker states we need three more votes, he suggest the next time you see Ed Testino, ask him. Ask Dennis Maher and Larry Redmond. He suggests that the committee move the meeting to the next topic.
Joe Dunn says we need to get the word out to the whole town to let their councilman know they want the golf course. He wouldn't vote anyone out of office just for the golf course. Maybe they need to hear from more people than us. Denis feels we need to let the people know how much money the town can make from this. Joe Dunn wants to get the golf subcommittee started again.
Tom states that the whole committee needs to read these feasibility studies. These studies will show how the money will be coming in. You need then to go to your constituents and let them know how good this would be for the town. It is just not about whether you play golf or not. This last study failed to put in a miniature golf course, and this would also make money for the town. There is money to be made. The council will need to be convinced by the people of this town.
Frank Piccillo suggests a petition. Janet says that could be done under the golf subcommittee They may want to organize a petition drive. Gerard states that he is very pro YMCA too, but this kind of effort did not need to be done for that. Janet says she has petitions signed for that which was organized by the YMCA subcommittee Gerard mentions that the YMCA was started a year before Janet was on the committee. Janet affirms that. Gerard states that we all agreed that we are in favor of both the YMCA and the golf course, and one wasn't exclusive of the other. But it seems that the resources that have been earmarked for the golf project had been moved to the YMCA project. Bill Baker agrees that it did happen.
Tom states that we also need financials on the community center (YMCA). Janet, asks if the meeting can move on and let the council know that we support both projects. On April 8th she will go and give a report and let them know that we support both projects. Gerard wants them to know we support a municipal golf course, not a county or state golf course. As an advisory committee that is what Janet will say. Bill Baker suggest that someone ask them why $300,000 moved from "A" to "B". Joe Dunn mentions that we need to aggressively find out how the other council people feel so that we do not waste time if they are not going to change their minds. And if so, why aren't they going to go for it. There are other things in the town that could be addressed if they are not going to go for it.
Gerard asks if everyone can see why he is upset. Why is the council pitting the YMCA and the Golf Course against each other? We have $50,000 - $60,000 in studies. Has land been appropriated to build the YMCA? Tom replies "NO". Has monies been appropriated to build the YMCA? "Yes." Can you see where I am upset? Tom questions. He states that we've been doing the golf course for the past 3-4 years. We agreed that we would be together on this. Janet suggests that we move on. She states the fact that the town just got the land for the golf course. Gerard states that we haven't got the land for the YMCA, but money has already been appropriated. Janet says that the YMCA will be put on property that the Township already owns, its is not like we had to acquire it. Janet feels they are two different projects and they are not competing against each other. Gerard states that the money has been shifted from one project to the other. Richard and Bill states that this was the case. Janet says that before she speaks to council, she will get everyone's approval. Bill states the question should be asked to the council why the money was moved from one project to the other.
A vote was taken and the committee was in favor of a golf subcommittee with Joe Dunn as the Chairman. Gerard and Tom will be on the committee too. Tom again stresses the need for everyone to read the studies. The documents are now public information.
Bug Spraying:
The county will spray only for mosquitos. Janet handed out the number for the county health department where people could call.
Power Raking:
Tom mentions that Will Fanner will power rake for the leagues. It has been done in the past and will be continued.
Letter from Clerk:
Janet mentions that she has a letter from the Township clerk confirming that she is on the agenda for April 8th at 8 pm Janet handed out her report that she will discuss that evening, excluding the golf course section which will be revised. Joe Dunn suggests that the Waterfront Park be listed on the report
Waterfront Project:
Tom explains that since the last meeting, Ralph Albanir did send me the information. What is needed now is for this board to make a resolution supporting the Phase II Waterfront project for the county's green acres application. Everyone was in favor.
Tom refreshed everyone on what the waterfront project entailed.
CAPITAL PROJECT UPDATE
Council approved the following capital projects for the coming year for Recreation:
1. $360,000 for the YMCA community center. One of the possible sites would be the land adjacent to the ice skating arena. The township owns this land. There will still be a buffer of trees there for the homes. Tom feels this would be an ideal place.
2. $80,000 was approved for the resurfacing of municipal tennis courts
3. $50,000 for improvements for engineering design work for Sayrewoods South Little League complex
4. $310,000 for the construction of the Ward III recreation center. Right now we are doing some environmental impact assessment. It would take will be $1 million - $1.5 million total.
5. $25,000 for the preliminary master plan work for Mannino Park on Rt. 516.
Projects:
1. Higgins Road project is completed.
2. Health Building is being renovated
3. Laurence Harbor Senior Building is being renovated and is 60% complete.
4. Condemnation of 196 acres Woodland Trails parcel which we are hopeful for a favorable condemnation hearing.
5. Lambertson Tract- waiting to see how to secure, either by outright condemnation or the agreement we reached with the land owners
6. Mannino Park and Olympia York Parcel, looking to put them under recreation open space inventory with deed restrictions so they can never be developed except for open space recreation.
7. Waterfront - Phase I progressing very well. Should be finished around Memorial Day. The police sub station and concession/ restroom area will be good additions.
8. Old Bridge Soccer - redoing the parking lot.
9. Mannino Park - Richard Greene mentions he has put this on the next agenda and asks for a development of Mannino Park. A lot of people think it cannot be developed because of wetlands. Tom says this is very frustrating for him. He explains that the town has spent a lot of money on wetland analysis and it showed 111 upland buildable acres. We can get access from Rt. 516 right now. We are waiting to see if we can get the small parcel from Perth Amboy so we can have access by the traffic light by Owens Rd. Gerard mentions that there was a newspaper article about Perth Amboy selling land. Tom mentions that the article stated that Perth Amboy would sell to the County for parkland. We don't know how that stands and how it will fit into our plan. It is strange that Perth Amboy is willing to sell to the County, but not willing to sell that little parcel to us. Something is wrong with this picture. This has been brought up to council. We are getting nowhere. I think Mayor Vas needs to understand what is going on here. We just want access so we can develop our park. Everyone needs to know the true story. Joe Dunn asks about access from Jake Brown Road. Kevin Calogera mentions that we need more access points to this park anyway. There is a development going in on Jake Brown Road.
Kevin Calogera is asked about his opinion on the golf course. He states that he is not a golfer and that he ran his election on a community center. He thinks both projects are important. Kevin says he needs to see the figures on the golf course because he thinks it should be approached as a business. He would look at it like an investment of the town, it would have to make money. If it is a golf course, it has limited use, if open space, there are more varieties of uses. Kevin mentions he needs more information before he makes a decision. Kevin is waiting to see the final figures. He doesn't want to be put in the middle. Tom stresses to Kevin to read the feasibility studies and to see him if he has any questions.
Tom mentions that some of the councilmen are ready to go to an architect for the YMCA building. But there has been no financial disclosure done on the project. He is in favor of a YMCA, but now the town is not talking about a YMCA anymore. They are talking about a community funded recreation center.
RECREATION UPDATE
Tom mentions that the Spring programs are running. The Camp Robin report is in your files. We are planning our summer programs and also Camp Robins summer programs. Tom mentions the article that was in the Suburban about the Hockey Program.
NEW BUSINESS
Joe Dunn remarks about the attendance for these board meetings. He's noted that people have missed some meetings. He stresses that it is important for everyone to try and make the meetings. Tom states that we keep the attendance and we can give it to Janet and then we can let council make inquiries on those who are delinquent in their attendance. The council can call them and see if they are still interested in coming or they can be replaced. Joe Dunn feels we should give them a warning first. Janet suggests she can call first before council gets involved.
Fran asks if we can get a report in the newspapers about what this committee does and what projects we are working on.
Denis mentions that another jungle gym would be nice in Veteran's Park. He feels that another jungle gym would get more use than the swings.
Dennis asks if the dirt path by the soccer fields can be paved. Tom said we can look into pricing, but he mentions there is not enough money in our operating budget to take care of the small jobs. Capital projects is reserved for the larger jobs. The small jobs get lost in the budgeting process.
Gerard remarks that a Recreation Advisory Board website should be looked into and we could do our own site.
Janet asks if everyone agrees on the report she wrote for the council, except for the golf course section. Everyone agrees.
Meeting is adjourned at 9:30 PM
The cassette tapes for this meeting can be borrowed if you want to hear the meeting in its entirety.
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