RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

MINUTES OF JANUARY 24, 2001

Tom Badcock called the meeting to order at 7:35 pm. Tom introduced the two new members of the board, Richard Bezeg and Joseph Dunn. In attendance were: Tom, Barbara Felice, Richard Bezeg, Joe Criscuolo, Frances DiRocco, Joseph Dunn, Gerard Haran, Timothy Kozlak, Janet Philips, Harold Reck, Joseph Rumolo, Paul Taguer. Mayor Cannon joined the meeting at 8 PM Carol Norberg was present to take the minutes. Absent at this time are Denis Kilduff, John Piovesan and Joseph Pruiti.

Tom mentions that the first order of business will be to elect a new chairperson and vice chairperson being that this is a new year. Gerard states he wants to be sure that everyone had been sworn in before the vote took place. Everyone who is present affirms that they have been sworn in.

Motions from the board for Chairperson are from Paul Taguer who nominated Gerard Haran and from Janet Phillips who nominated Joe Criscuolo. There were no other nominations. A paper vote was taken and the count was 8 votes for Joe C. and 2 counts for Gerard. Joe C. is named chairman for the coming year.

Motions from the board for Vice Chairperson are from Gerard Haran who nominated Paul Taguer and from Janet Phillips who nominated Joe Rumolo. There were no other nominations. A paper vote was taken and the count was 7 votes for Joe R. and 3 votes for Paul. Joe Rumolo is named vice chairman for the coming year.

Tom turns the meeting over to Joe C. who thanks everyone who voted for him and says hopes he does a good job. He lets the members know they can call him or e-mail him if they need anything. He welcomed the new members. Joe C. explains some of the members have been on the board for four or five years and some for one or two years.

Joe C. goes on to explain the basic agenda of the meetings. He states there is one active committee at this time (YMCA- headed up by Janet Phillips) and mentions he would like to set up more active committees possibly this year. He would like to see some sub committees to come out of this committee as well.

APPROVAL OF OCTOBER'S MINUTES

Everyone was in favor of approving the October minutes.

OLD BUSINESS

Short Sided Soccer Fields: Donna Ryan (360-4422) from the Board of Ed advised by phone on 1/24/01 that we are able to use Voorhees and Shepard schools. Joe Rumolo says he will pass this information on to the Soccer League. Joe C. mentions that goal posts and nets will need to be brought to the sites by the Soccer League, and we will have to work with them to stripe the fields so that the younger kids in town will have a place to practice. These fields will be for practice only. The goal is to progress and get more of these short-sided soccer fields at all the other elementary schools.

Richard: Is this open to any kids in the towns? They can't get kicked off if they are just from the neighborhood going to play there?

Joe C: Well, that is something that the Board of Education controls. If a particular team wanted to have practice, they can apply for a permit. I would suggest the soccer leagues apply for a permit from 4 - 9 every day of the week, Monday thru Friday for use of those fields.

Richard: That's were I have a problem with that, baseball and everything else. You have to be on a team. I don't see any kids that don't play that want to get some buddies together, you can't. You can't go anywhere you get booted off. If you don't have a permit, there's no way you can go and just play.

Joe C: That's why our goal was to get them in all of the elementary schools...

Richard: The Board of Ed doesn't take care of their baseball fields. Those baseball fields should just be knocked down. I won't take a kid there just to practice if there is a regular team practice. Kids would get hurt. I moved down here twelve years ago and I couldn't believe the shape of the fields that they have. I know it has nothing to do with Recreation, but where do you go, to the Board of Ed?

Tom explains that this is not only in Old Bridge, where he lives in Middletown, their Board of Ed fields and their recreation fields are not good. A lot of Board of Ed's contract this work out; they do not have the expertise on their staff to do the proper job.

Richard explains he worked for Recreation in Clifton when he was in high school and worked on the fields. You were able to get a bunch of kids and go play. There's not enough for the kids to do now. You can't go to any league and just have a pick-up game.

Tom: We have the same problem with the soccer fields. The problem is they won't go through the expense to irrigate the fields and put the proper sub surface and drainage, they won't do it. So, they will continue to be mud holes. We will have to accept that as reality until either they get deep pockets or somebody gets on there with some expertise, which is probably not going to happen.

Paul: Does anyone know if those fields (elementary schools) are accessible to the neighborhood children today? Do they get chased off if they are playing?

Joe C: There isn't anything marked out. The kids can go and play there after school. Naturally, can anybody can apply for a permit from Art Freihon and get it. Madison Park Girls Softball get a permit for the whole summer for behind Madison Park School.

Paul: I was thinking about those kids that just want to go out and kick a ball around. If those fields today are accessible to them, I am hoping that it doesn't become problematic with the presence of the goals and the striped field that they would then need a permit. Because today they don't need a permit. I hope that doesn't happen.

Joe C: You don't need a permit, but if you apply for a permit then you have a right to the field.

Tom: Most of the fields we have are purchased with State funding, Green Acres Money, which means you can't tell people they have to get off. But what you can do is issue a permit, and the only way to get people off is to show your permit. That is the purpose of the permit, its not that you can't play without a permit.

Joe C: I am hoping they are used and then the kids will start wanting it and we can stress to them to talk to their phys. ed instructor and get in touch with Joe R. and whoever in the Soccer League and I think they would be more than happy to put another field. The more the better.

Tom: This is just a pilot project to start. The Superintendent told me they would move from this, they just want to start and see how it works. I'll think they'll move from this to additional fields.

Joe R: I'd like to mention that this is not an attempt to reserve space in the township by the soccer league. It is an attempt to make space useable.

Paul T: I guess the idea of permitting those fields, now that would happen.

Joe R: Certainly, if you have a permit for a field, and there were a bunch of kids there, it is pretty likely you will tell them to move to other side. Usually when you have soccer practice you are using basically the net portion anyway. You don't use a whole field unless you are scrimmaging.

You are really trying to create more usable space. But yes, there could be a situation where somebody will say I have the permit you have to move. That will happen.

Tom: You will probably run into what happens to our guys. Our guys only work until 3:30, and obviously they work till 3:00 when they clean up. They are lining all these fields for the night games sometime during the day which could be anywhere from 8 or 9 in the morning till 1 or 2 in the afternoon, what happens is the kids get out of school and get on the fields. The people who have permits for the evening get angry because the fields are a mess. It is a tough situation. You are right, Rich. There should be a means to do this, but without the people working at night, it is a problem.
Richard: The elementary school fields should be for the kids in that neighborhood. For a pickup games so they could just go play. They are in such bad shape.

Tom agrees with Rich. He states that the board of Ed doesn't have enough maintenance people on hand, and they contract out just for cutting grass. They don't have people who can drag these fields on a regular basis.

Tim K: Hopefully, with this program this will start the ball rolling to open up the schools more for the field use and all that. It took us how long to get them to open their doors to allow anything to be done. Hopefully it will progress quickly.

Mayor Cannon enters the meeting at 8:00 PM

Joe C: Also keep in mind that Joe R. has been trying to accomplish this for two years. It just happens that in September we put the full court press on them. I am seeing this as a small victory and let us get them going and then if it works out good in the spring, maybe over the summer they will realize it, or some of us could go to the Board of Ed meeting and tell them how much the kids are enjoying the soccer fields, could we get some more? I've already talked to Mr. Henderson at McDivitt and he says he could fit two. Madison Park said they could fit some in the back. I think we have good possibilities for the kids to have a place to play. I know over at Shepard the kids are playing there all of the time. They also have an after school program. It will give the kids something else to do.

Joe C. asks Janet if she has anything to report on the YMCA and Janet replies not at this time.

CAPITAL PROJECTS

Tom fills everyone in on Capital Projects:

1. Civic Center Renovation - The basement is completely gutted. We have a little over half a million dollar renovation, restructuring job of this basement. We have a wonderful plan. (Barbara Felice brings in the plan of the basement and shares what the renovation will look like once completed and explains how it will benefit the recreation programs). The contractor is a local guy, and so far he is ahead of schedule. He is doing a terrific job and has good people working for him. Tommy Gallante, Gallant Construction. We expect this to be finished and ready for use sometime by the time the summer program rolls around in June. Tom mentions that part of the basement used to house the Food Bank, of which a new building has been built for the Food Bank. Fran DiRocco asks if the board can get a tour once its complete. Tom mentions we should be able to do a tour for the June Recreation Advisory Board meeting.

2. Lambertson Tract - This is a 70-acre parcel that's across the street from the Rose Farm, which we purchased in 1995 for about $4 million, half of which was funded by Green Acres and the other half was funded over a 20 year, 2% interest loan. We basically got that property for free. This will be piggyback onto the Rose Farm to have a 210-acre park area. We are also committed from Green Acres to get a 50% grant for this project. In the last three weeks, I have been updating the market value analysis to reflect current conditions and I am waiting for the second appraisal to update and once I have that, I will be able to propose a new offer to the land owners and hopefully have that sewn up. It is a beautiful piece of property, and Mrs. Smith, the owner is 90 years old and was born and raised in this town. She has it that this property will not be developed into houses. She will only have this property go for public recreation usage. This is a wonderful thing for this town.

3. Queen Yacenda Tract - This is a 165-acre parcel off of Rt. 516 by Old Bridge Tire. This is a magnificent stretch of land within the Township, it looks like the reservoir in Somerset, it reminds you of being in the Carolina's. You forget you are in NJ. We have had a wetland analysis done. We have received word there is well over 100 acres of upland on this property, which you are looking at half square mile of usable upland, which is a huge piece of property. It will be by far the biggest municipal park within the Township of Old Bridge. It is something to be very proud of.

4. Higgins Soccer Building - This is the restroom concession building that will go into the Higgins Road Soccer complex. He will be starting, weather permitting, in the next two to three weeks and anticipate completion for late spring. The parking lot there, also, we are in the process of throwing the contractor off the job for non-performance, the attorneys are working on that now. We expect this to be completed in the next couple of weeks. Then we will rebid, it is a small, 18 day job. It is roughly a 29-car parking lot. It will be an auxiliary parking lot next to the one at Higgins Road. It will provide more safe conditions.

5. Genoa Playground in the Genoa Section of Old Bridge - We have put in a $15,000 playground. It will be completed in the spring with the laying down of the ground cover (FIBAR wood composition surface) and the installation of benches and fencing.

6. Cedar Ridge II Tract (Woodland Trails) - 196-acre parcel by Ticetown Rd. We are trying to purchase this property with help from Green Acres, County Recreation Board and also through what we have to match locally. It is a beautiful piece of property. They are in the late stages of a development plan, but we are still hoping we are going to be able to raise money. They have committed to a $750,000 grant and another $500,000 grant and a $250,000 loan, which sounds like a lot of money, but the cost of this parcel is very exorbitant. We are trying to close the gap between what the developers are asking and what we will have reasonably available.

7. Skate Park - It is completed and has been very well attended by all of our kids and also, unfortunately, by a lot of nonresidents. We will talk about skate park fees when we get into new business. One of the problems we have with the green acre funded facility which this is, is that you can't restrict it to just residents. You have to open it up to anyone who lives in the State of New Jersey. The only way to restrict the attendance is to create a fee structure. We will talk about that in New Business.

8. Feasibility Study and Engineering Proposals to add money to our new bonding proposals for the Ticetown Rd. parking lot. Which is a much needed parking lot expansion to the Soccer Complex. This would be a huge expansion that would more than double the amount of spaces out there. It would keep the families and cars off of the road, which is a dangerous situation. The mayor has put this on her capital list and we will be sending the capital list to the Council, with our priorities Township Wide which will include our parks projects.

9. Town Center Complex - the Cottrell piece of property on Rt. 516 and Cottrell Rd. -We are trying to purchase (not a green acre parcel) for the future of Old Bridge. It would be a combination of historic district, some upscale shopping, walking area with a Town Green and Gazebo. We are trying to negotiate with Mr. Cottrell and his family, and we are hoping this will come to fruition sometime in the future.

Tom explains there are still capital projects that are ongoing such as maintenance equipment, vehicles that we need for the size of the park system that we have, in addition to some of the new ones which will be anywhere from small projects to large-scale capital inducing projects that will raise us money.

Joe Dunn: The land that we are looking to purchase, can the open space money that was just passed last election be used to fund this?

Tom: Yes, any of our open space money can be used to fund that. What we are running into here is that we have such huge pieces of property that are worth so much. When we talk about $5 million or $10 million, those are the numbers we talk about with some of these parcels. We were very lucky we were able to foreclose on the Queen Yacenda Tract. If we had to buy that, it would cost a fortune. Things like that help us. Revenue producing development of some of the facilities will be able to generate funding that will keep the taxpayer's pockets from going broke in developing big parks for the future of this town. Obviously, this will have to happen if there is going to be development and the money has to come from somewhere. You have heard me before, in the Green Acres program, the State has been very active in the land acquisition and will continue to do so. But as far as development, the development funds will not be available for probably at least 10-15 years. Then you will see the switch over to more development money. For the next ten to fifteen years, the bulk of the monies that the state approves for Green Acres will go for acquisitions. Obviously, in NJ, you better get the land now or it will be gone. Right now we are targeting acquisition for the development, we are looking at some things such as revenue producing sources of income. Such as golf courses, which will produce vast sums of revenue that will be able to fuel the funding of some of these parks that we are talking about that will cost multi-millions of dollars. Rather than have the taxpayers have to fund the bill for that. Green Acres will not be funding the development of the parks.

Joe D.: The first order of business is to get the land. How much money is Open Space suppose to generate on a yearly basis? I know its 2 cents per $100.

Mayor Cannon: $600,000 a year. There is a sunset clause that after ten years it expires. We have to go back out to referendum t get it renewed. So $6 million...

Joe D: Something like that you can bond out.

Mayor Cannon: (recording very low)...to try to attract more State and County dollars.

Tom: We have been very fortunate in Old Bridge because we qualify for grant money. That is free money. We do not have to pay it back. Because of our status, we are a suburban area, but we qualified for a lot of years as Urban Aid area, which gives us a big incentive for the State for getting us Grant money. We have gotten millions of dollars in the last five or ten years from the State in grant money alone.

Joe D: Do we ever use Federal money?

Tom: Federal money for municipalities are very hard to come buy. Federal money for state park systems, even less rarely for county park systems, and less rare would be for municipal park settings. All the Federal money goes to Blue Acres, which is waterfront development or for either the National Parks or maybe sometimes for State Parks. Rarely for county and municipal parks.

Joe D: Frank Pallone was here in the early part of the fall and there is starting to become a lot more money available for these type of things.

Tom: Not for municipalities though, not yet. He's worked hard for many years, but that will be a while coming before it is a significant source of funding at our level.

END OF TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE

RECREATION PROGRAM UPDATE

Barbara Felice: We are expanding programming. We expanded our brochure four additional pages. It will be back from the printers in early Feb. I will have it to mail out to you with your minutes. It will show everything we are doing and more. It is up on the Old Bridge web page (www.oldbridge.com) now if you'd like to check it out. Laura and I did a lot of brainstorming for this time, things get stale with recreational programming, and every now and then you have to make it new and different. What we have done in addition to expanding on our Mom and Me Programs, we have added on Tiny Tot programs and our preschool program, due to popular demand, runs almost run year round with the exception of summer. We also extended the hours, due to parent demand. The kids really enjoy it. We are trying to meet the needs of people when the come in with suggestions. If we are able to do it, we make every effort to do so. We are putting in workshop type programs rather than having an 8-week arts and crafts, we are putting in a four week program of a workshop. We are zeroing in on one particular project. We will see how it works. If it doesn't, we will rethink it. The thing we are going to do this year, which we are kind of excited about, is we are putting in computer classes. We are going to utilize Camp Robin's computer room. And Camp Robin has an excellent instructor. We are running children, teen and adult classes. The adult program especially, we think we will get a good turnout because there are a lot of 50 year olds out there that do not have a clue about computers. We will present it for the beginner who does not know how to begin. What prompted us to do this class is that we had a lot of people trying to sign up for Camp Robin's computer course who were not participants of Camp Robin. We are trying things that are popular and that will go well.

Joe C: I think that is a great idea. As you know, I worked on that project a little bit with Tom, to utilize that better. Unfortunately, those computers are only about 18 months old and they are getting to the point where they will be obsolete. We should also keep that in mind. As they get popular, we will need upgrades. That's were some of the new programs involving leasing computers is a better deal. Because then you pay a certain amount each month and then you get them for two years and when two years are up, just call and swap them. Even businesses are doing that now. It is not worth investing in the capital. Thanks, Barbara. Oh, a request from my daughter, Hip Hop dance class.

Barbara: If we can get an instructor. We had a lot of requests for Swing, but the instructors cost $80 per hour. A lot of times we try, but it is way out of our league as far as price cost.

Joe C: Maybe we could do something for summer, like Hip Hop. I know my daughter raves about the gymnastic class.

Barbara: We have excellent certified dance instructors. I'm sure they could handle a class like that. I'll pass it by them.

Joe C.: The Robin Program Update is in your folders. A couple of things I wanted to point out, as most of you know I was involved in the Robin Program. Michael Gordon, who was one of the children I chaperoned for a couple of years at the New Jersey Special Olympics, has been selected to represent the United States. Even more so, Michael was selected by General Mills to be featured on the June box of Golden Graham cereal. That is so exciting for Michael. If you know Michael, he is 27 or 28; he is really what Special Olympics is made for. He must be thrilled. He will do us proud. There is a fundraiser at the arena for him to help with expenses.

Tom: Barbara Erosh-Anderson has a big banner; you can donate $5 to write a good luck message on the banner. Some of the expenses are covered, the town can only cover a certain, minute portion ($200), he is covered, but his family and his coach have to covered. This event is in Anchorage Alaska the first week of March. It is an expensive trip. We are trying to subsidize it as much as we can. I think she has already raised $1,500 or $1,600. She has done a terrific job, as usual.

Barbara: Pete wanted me to add this on because it wasn't in the report. The Sunoco station on Rt. 34 and Morganville Rd., was very interested in the fund raising for Michael and he handed out flyers to everyone. He also donated money, $835, to the Friday Night Adult Program for everybody in that program to go to the Continental Arena for Disney on Ice. He is very supportive of Camp Robin.

Tom mentions that the tentative date for the Annual Camp Robin Golf outing is Monday, Sept. 10, 2001, at Glenwood Country Club, which is a challenging course. The cost should be around $110. We would like to program this early and get some more sponsors and more players for this year's tournament. This is a great way to raise money for this program. Now that the building is built in Geick Park, we are using the money to obviously subsidize the program further. As far as activities for the kids, equipment, etc., it is a very worthwhile cause.

Joe C: If any of your company can donate items for the raffle, we are always looking for things.

NEW BUSINESS:

1. Skate Park Fees:

Tom: The council would like a little feedback from you guys since you represent the community. I would ask maybe within the next month till we meet at the next meeting, to talk about it in your community area about the possibility of some type of fee structure. What I have basically proposed was an annual fee, which is much easier to monitor and no money would be exchanged at the site. An annual fee for a resident would be $50 and a nonresident fee can be set at $100. We are looking to make it a little more difficult for out-of-towners to come in. The only way according to Green Acres legislation is that you can set the fees basically up to twice as much for nonresidents. as you do for residents. This is the only way you can limit the access. You would have to come in and pay, you have to pay for an ID card if you are a nonresident, it makes it a little more unattractive for a nonresident kid to come in here. Even to use it once, he has to pay $100. I believe these prices are very nominal compared to other private skate parks and spend $10 for 2-3 hours of time on the skate park. Our park, weather permitting, will be open 365 days per year. The council has funded in the budget over $40,000 for a special police officer to be at the park during all the hours that we will be open, which is roughly is on holidays and vacation days from school from 8 am till dark. It is a continually ongoing expense. In addition to the capital outlay, which was $100,000, the ongoing expense will be $40-45,000 per year for at least one special police to be there to monitor and enforce the rules and regulations to make sure there is order in that park. A $50 fee for a resident isn't going to put much of a dent in that. What it will do, basically and effectively will be to help us monitor it properly, make sure they are proper age (7 or older) because of our insurance regulations. It will be a picture ID and will not be transferable. All the resident kids will get it for a nominal fee; all the nonresident kids will pay double. It will allow us to monitor the traffic. For multiple family members, I would propose $25 for second family member, $10 for the third family member.
Fran: Why don't we have input from the kids who helped with the Park, and their parents about the fees? This was not brought up to them that they would be paying a fee.

Tom: I understand. But what I'm saying is there is only one-way to monitor the traffic in this park.

Fran: Why wasn't this done in the beginning, before this park went up.

Tom: We never discussed fees. I had always talked about having a fee. I never talked about doing this for free. You build it, then get into the fee structure later. This is a nominal fee.

Fran: But are you going to drive the kids out of the park and back into the parking lots.

Tom: Of course not. If there is a family that has a skateboard, he can afford $50. The boards they are using cost over $100. The bikes are $400. It is not a lot of money if your kid is going to a private park because he is paying $10 every time he goes.

Fran: Everything that the kids do in this town cost money. There is nothing free.

Tom: I know that. How do you think the taxpayers will feel about the fees? It is one thing to bond for a project $100,000 of your tax money went to bond the project, which is very worthwhile. Now, is it reasonable to ask every member of this community to pay every expense for the ongoing operation, which would be the $40,000 a year? I am asking you for input. I have given you my opinion. I think it will raise some money and it will also keep the nonresidents out. Because, like it or not, we can't keep the nonresidents out any other way. In the summertime, we have already have had kids from about five or six towns, and it will be chaos and bedlam down there in the summer unless we do something, and the only thing we can do is instill a fee.

Mayor Cannon: I'd just like to say that the whole idea of a fee was not initially to subsidize or offset the cost. It really was to control the out-of-towners. It was all in the papers that car loads of kids were coming in from Monroe, etc. There is really no way we can legally limit that except to set up a fee structure. You can make the fee lower, but you can only double the nonresident fees. So you have to think about what affect that will have. That was the primary reason why this got started. We got many complaints from our residents that the park was being overcrowded because of all the out-of-towners. It is a Green Acre park, there is no way we can limit those kids other than by attaching a fee and making a special one-time thing. The amounts are up in the air.

Tom: You can make it a $10 fee, but then the most you can charge an out of towner is $20, and that will not be a deterrent.

Joe Dunn: How about doing a $50 per family.

MEMBER DISCUSSION-HARD TO HEAR INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS

Tom: We don't have a problem with that Joe, as the Mayor is saying we are not trying to...we are not going to make a dent in this thing.

Joe D: I agree 100%. $50 per family would be the same thing. His mom and dad is not going to truck over here to pay $100. Make it $50 a family and every kid in town can use the park.

Tom: We don't have a problem with that. If you do that, then you can make it $100 per family of out-of-towners too. Just so you understand.

Joe D: This will keep the out-of-towners out for $100.

Janet: Is there a regulation on how much you can charge for the card?

Tom: You can only charge double for the card. If it is free, you would probably have to get a special dispensation for Green Acres to have any charge.

Janet: But I thought you said you were going to charge for the card for out-of-towners.

Tom: I'd like to. I have to get approval of the State to do that. I just can't do that.

Mayor Cannon: But I think that would only be double too. If we charge 50 cents for residents, we could charge $1 for nonresidents.

Joe C: I think you would have to charge what it costs you to produce it.

Joe C: I think it is a good idea to have someone down there. I think it will deter any violence, and vandalism in the park. There must be control on how many could be in there at a certain time.

Barbara: It has to be a special cop, it can't be a park supervisor.

Tom: Just so you know, this special is only at the skate park. If we need a special for something else, that would be additional.

Joe C: People will know that he's there and if you see something going on in the ball field, he can radio for help.

Barbara: The children must have proper equipment, or they don't get in to the skate park. That is another reason to have a special there, to monitor that.

Paul: He will be the one to validate the ID's of the children. Do we need to do anything with the entrance of the Park? Is the gate enough for him to stand there?

Tom: We can also have a high school kid, we pay him a wage like a tennis attendant, to check cards, if there is a problem the special can help. We are not here to try to make more work for the special other than his normal duties. We can always have an attendant there too. It would be a job for one of our kids. It would be a good job for someone interested in skateboarding, etc.

Tom explains that even before the park was officially opened, there were a lot of out-of-towners using the park.

Paul: Would we advertise the policy on the cable channel?

Tom: If we did, we would advertise it over cable, we'd put it in our recreation book.

Joe C: I think we'd want to keep it low key. If you put it in the brochure, the kids in Old Bridge will get that. If you put it in the paper and on cable, other towns get that too.

Tom: We don't want the out-of-towners to be inconvenienced, if they go down there and can't get in. We want them to know ahead of time. Obviously, if it did get put in, we'd have a good lead time. A couple of months. We would have signs posted that as of this date; you would need an ID card. We wouldn't put it in the paper.

Fran: We can't be charged with being prejudiced by charging non-residents?

Tom: No, that is the way the system works. Golf courses work the same way.

Joe D: When do you want to do this?

Tom: I think we would want to do it by late spring.

Joe Rumolo asks what the capacity is for the skate park and if the special or attendant would have to count kids.

Tom: It fits about 110 kids. They are not always on the components. A lot of them are watching. They take turns and let each other go. The older kids have helped the younger ones. It's a nice situation. It is not wild and unruly. It is a dangerous sport and we will have injuries.

Like skiing or any sport, there is a risk. What we are going to have to start doing as we get into the heavier season, we will have to go down there with counters and start assessing. We will have to come up with a reasonable number with our insurance people that we can have at the max and then we will have to deal with then. I think even with our own kids, it is very popular. We may get into a situation were we will have to alternate every half hour. I have seen that done.

One more thing regarding fees, which we do, if there are families that have a hardship, we will give them a scholarship. We are not going to tell them they can't go. I don't feel in this community that is an outrageous figure, but we have done that in other things and we will do it here. We will not turn anyone away if they can't afford it.
Joe C: We will put it on our agenda to talk about it next month.

LEAGUE WORK BONDS

Barbara: We got a phone call from a resident who thought the work bond was for an extraordinary amount for a work bond for $150. I just wanted to ask the board. She felt it was outrageous considering that she ends up with $500 tied up with the different sports. I explained we have no control over that.

Joe C: She must be talking about Cheesequake. Madison Park, Old Bridge, is doing $100. Laurence Harbor is $50 or $75.

Joe D: The idea is to get them to work.

Paul T: What might work, and I know it was done one year at Old Bridge Little League and then they found out they could not cash the check if it was greater than 90 days dated, but they took a check from each family, if you did not satisfy your hours, they then cashed the check. So if you could time the family giving that check, then they wouldn't be laying the money out until the check was cashed.

It was mentioned to just predate the check. If you don't work, then the check could be cashed, it you do work, we rip it up and send it back to you.

Paul: I wouldn't want to put work bond money into a league account. That becomes a lot of money and that to have to start withdrawing it.

Joe C: We do deposit those checks because we make money on interest. It is our largest account. I also know a lot of people who work, and just roll over their money to the next year. We keep in the account drawing interest.

Tom: I think its good that the leagues are getting the message out that they need people to work.

Paul T: Some people just tell us up front they buy out.

Joe C: We do that too, then we know we will not have to give that money back. We use towards equipment, etc. Youth leagues are on tight budgets.

Joe C: I know you sent out the stipend letters. Do you know what the turnaround time is going to be after the purchase orders are signed and returned to you?

Tom: The budget is adopted now. The turnaround time will be as fast as it can be processed.

Barbara: Make sure you get your rosters in.
Fran asks about the ceramic class. Barbara hopes we can start in the fall after the renovation, or, hopefully if the basement is finished ahead of time, in the spring, using a separate flyer for registration. Fran also mentions that the ice skating fees are wrong in the book.

(PLEASE NOTE: Our Recreation booklet has the correct fees, the Old Bridge Township Community School's spring brochure that is put out by the Board of Education lists the wrong fees. They will be advised)

Paul: An item of New Business. Members that were here last year, had we discussed having this particular appointment on the committee become a two-year position instead of a one-year position.

Joe C: In your packages you have a copy of the rules and regulations and the ordinance. If you can take a look at that before the next meeting, we did make changes back in 1997, we asked the council to make changes to the ordinance.

Tom: The council would have to look legally at what the statute says for our form of government.

Paul: I believe other advisory boards here in the township are more than one year.

Mayor Cannon: I think this is the only one that is for one year.

Tom: You can propose anything to them as a recommendation.

Paul: I think the mindset when we discussed it was that a lot of projects are not fully realized in a year. So the YMCA with Janet, for example, she's probably just scratching the surface. These types of projects would need two, three four years if we are going to get people active with them.

Joe C: Let's everyone make a commitment to look at the sections and the ordinance and at our next meeting we could discuss it in committee, or out of committee.

Fran DiRocco asks if we heard anything from the DEP with regard to the lake by her house.

Tom: I'm not saying it is not going to happen, but we will keep trying. It took a long time to clean up the pond at Geick.

Joe C: One of the tables is frozen in the lake at Geick.

Tom: We will have to do a dredging there. Kids have thrown a lot of stuff in.

Joe C: We are also supposed to have a representative from the High School. I will get in touch with Mr. Petrillo and ask him for two juniors to be here for the committee. In the past we recommended one male and one female. I'll do that tomorrow. I'll ask them to have one person designated and then one alternate.

Joe C: A request I received from a resident is that there is nothing for the 17-20 year olds to do. They are getting in trouble. We are supposed to be here to provide recreation.

Tom: We have open basketball, volleyball and hockey. We have a number of sports. We do have programs. At some point they need to take some responsibility for themselves. We do provide things for them. If they are complaining with what we have, then they won't be satisfied with three or four more.

Fran: Did you find out from them what they wanted?

Joe C: I don't know what they were looking for. As we see a lot of kids right now hang out at the malls on the weekends.

Tom: That's their place of choice.

Barbara: We have teen lounges. The Civic Center has been closed, but Laurence Harbor and South Old Bridge remained open. But we don't get that age group. They can participate in any adult program that we run.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2

Joe C: ...possibly more committees to maybe get some work done in between meetings. I know Janet has been working hard on the YMCA, think about having a subcommittee to work on different things. Fran, I know you are interested more in the beachfront. I want to throw out to everyone if they think there's committees we should be forming to get the committee more active in voicing their opinions in these different things. I think the next time we go to do something with the Board of Education with field, if we had a committee of two people that would go to the board of Ed meetings. Rather than taking us five months to get a reply for short-sided fields, maybe it would have taken us two months. What do people think?

Paul: Didn't we initially go as the entire Recreation Advisory Board. Not even a subcommittee.

Joe C: We sent letters. At one point, I saw the meeting on TV and I was going to print out the letter and run over there. Do people think we need to form subcommittees to work on different projects?

Paul: I would say absolutely. As the project or needs come up. I can't think of any right now that we want to form. I do know where we have had situations where we are kind of left with stuff to do but it never came together. And it was because somebody didn't take ownership of that particular task. So if there is something that we see out in front of us that we want to do more in between the once a month, absolutely. I would be all for that. I don't know of anything pressing right now.

Joe R: I have one issue from last year that we never got closure on. We were talking about reviewing the financials on the golf course proposal. We took that so far and it just kind of got dropped. Maybe that is a good area we can look at. Get a couple of people together and do a review and present it to the committee.

Tom: For sensitivity reasons, obviously, but we can do that as a closed network. You have to remember these are very sensitive things, this is still in negotiation. I said that last year and I will say it again. This is not something that can go as public knowledge before we are ready to release it. It can be released if the Council is ready to go on this. We are not ready to start looking at it actively yet. Then obviously you wouldn't want to be taken a look at it. We are not at that point yet. They've seen it, they know what the figures are and they all have been substantiated. But we are not ready to go to the next point because we are still waiting on a couple of pieces to be put together before we would even get to that point. Obviously, when it gets to that point, then we will have you look at them before the public would look at them.

Joe Dunn: Where are we with that anyway. I've heard rumors about it.

Tom: We have a full financial feasibility done by one of one of the foremost financial golf analysts in the US. Basically what he has told us is that a public golf course on the tract of land we are talking about would generate a tremendous amount of revenue, even after the expenses are paid. We are waiting on some other things, which is another piece of property which would determine the size and number of auxiliary revenue producers that would or would not be able to be built depending on whether we get this other property or not.

Paul: Is this even with the deep discounts for the Old Bridge residents?

Tom: Yes. He has done all the analysis and correlations based on percentages and different types of percentages comparing residents, nonresidents out of state. He has done all the formulas and its all shows very, very well.

Gerard: Was there any type of study done ancillary to that about what that would do to the property values or what that could do for the property values of the area?

Tom: It will increase, but to what degree I'm not sure.

Joe C: The golf course will bring revenue, but my assessment will go up and my taxes will go up.

Tom: If you don't have the golf course, and you want to develop another park, it will cost you money from your pockets. It's how you want to look at it.

Joe D: Is this group in favor of bringing in a golf course?

Tom: I'm not really sure at this point. I know that the council had been in favor of doing it. The Mayor and I are obviously in favor of doing it. I think when you look at the numbers and you look at the availability of public golf in our area, it is really a can't miss situation. It is good for the Township.

Mayor: We did do a survey four years ago just to get some sense from the community about utilization of Rose Farm. The consensus was to do a revenue producing facility like a golf course.

Tom: The bottom line is that if anything took precedent it was the fact that we need to, especially in this day and age, to have something that would provide a needed recreational facility that would also generate income. This fills the bill.

Paul: I would suspect as this becomes more information that could be shared or when the council begins to talk about it during the public session, there would be input from the public at some point.

Tom: Believe me, we are not holding anything back. The timing and sensitivity of this project is because we are still negotiating for part of the property. I would be happy to share this with the whole state. It is a very positive thing. I know when you'll see the numbers you will realize what this is all about. This is not a pie in the sky thing. This is reality. We just have to deal with it step by step. We need to know whether and how this Lambertson piece is going to, if any, fall into the mix of this thing before anything goes further. At that point then we will be looking at moving forward. Getting the word out, absolutely, through you people. And to the public about what this project is capable of. Then getting input back.

Mayor: We also talked to a couple of people, we took a field trip, which actually was not for that purpose. We got very positive feedback for municipal courses. Regarding their ability to make money.

Tom: Not just from golf people, but from their financial people, from their bond people. We are not just taking the local recreation directors word for it. We are taking the financial people, the bonding people, the people who do all the financials. Everywhere we have seen that is in a municipal setting, it is a very positive for the community and from a financial standpoint. We look at it here in our game plan, we are looking at a tremendous amount of recreational development, complex wise, coming up in the near future. Ten years or so. Something has to fuel that development. There is not going to be, other than very small grants, it will be funded by revenue producing sources or by the taxpayers. That is the choice that the people will have. Either that or the choice will be not to develop any more parks. Either you pay for it, the users of the facility pay for it, or it doesn't get built. Those are your options.

Mayor: And that wasn't the case in the past because Geick was all funded, except for the Robin Building, with Green Acre money. But we were told the same thing. The money for development is minimal and it would be more for urban areas.

Joe C: I'm glad the Mayor's here. I have a question - it is actually something to do with the Planning Board. When the planning board receives a proposal, I understand that you go to the traffic and safety committee with those things. Repeatedly I see residents coming up with problems with recreational packages that were promised to them. Do you think it is necessary for us as a recreation committee to get involved, lets say, with the planning board to look at some of these things?

Mayor: It might be a good idea. Some developments are looking to set aside some land or develop an active recreation area to get feedback to what you think might be appropriate.

Tom: Normally, they usually come to us for input as well as the Planning Board, but the bottom line is there going to try and get away with whatever the planning and zoning board is allowing them to get away with. They are not going to put in a $100,000 playground in a development in a subdivision if they can get away with putting in a $20,000 playground. That's what it comes down to. They are not bound by anything I say, they are really bound on what the local laws are. That is something for the planning board. They are only looking for me to give them ideas on what type of things.

Joe C: I'm just looking for ways that this committee can be productive for the town. I guess where I'm coming from, and I will cut to the chase, some of the people that didn't want to be on this committee any longer over the last couple of years felt that the committee didn't add a lot of value. I talked to five ex-members of the committee since last year who I thought were very good committee members and were regularly here and attended, but felt that the committee didn't really have any meat behind it. Didn't really accomplish things.

Mayor: All these committee are really advisory, we have the Parking and Transportation and the Utility, they can review all the plans and give reports, but they are advisory, it may be frustrating but they are not necessarily listened to, a lot of times they are. I think as far as giving additional input I think it would be good. We have in the past gotten Tot Lots and people question if they are really accomplishments, maybe there is something else...

Joe C: That's where I'm heading. We have two tot lots in my development and nobody ever uses them. There is good equipment in them. It really just isn't the right thing for there. Maybe something else would have been better. We have seniors that are down in the complex in the front. They like to walk towards the back, they like the benches there. In the summertime, they don't want to sit in the sun when its hot. I think if we got possibly more involved we would know what the needs of the particular section of the community is, or throw some ideas into the mix.

Tom: The problem is that the people who are going to buy into the community before they do all this, aren't even buying when they develop the plans. It has to be approved by the planning board. So maybe what you got to do is send a letter on behalf of the Committee if they'd like to meet with the Planning Board and see if you can give an opinion on any sub divisions they are thinking about. Coming from the residents on the recreation package that they are asking for. I don't know how much weight that will carry, Joe. Because I think what you want is something that is not going to happen. I will tell you again that some of these developers have asked me as a professional to give them input, and they have just ignored it. The reason why they ignore it is because what I propose would be more expensive than what they expended. The planning Board wasn't going to hold them to anymore. So until the planning board finds a way to be able to listen to your opinions and say, we'd rather have this or that, whether the expense is different or if you could do this, until that time comes I think you will be spinning your wheels. It won't hurt to talk to the Planning Board.

Mayor: What we do with the others is that we send the plans over, obviously you wouldn't be interested in those that didn't have a recreation component, but the others, of course. You can take a look at them and submit your ideas of what might be appropriate or whatever. And just write up a report like what we get from the environment commission, parking and utility.

Joe C: As you know I've been to the Cedar Ridge Woodland Trails and I hear about phase I recreation packages across the street and linked to Phase II, stuff like that. I hope the planning board now would be more sensible and say you can't do that. If the town buys Woodland Trails, the people in Phase I, basically have lost their recreation package. They will have no pool, they paid for the package and will never get it. It is sad and true.

Mayor: We are hopeful we will get the property.

Fran: The only thing I would say is that you are talking about all these plans, come down by me, there is nothing. There are no tot lots, find out what people want. Have committees to find out what people want. Get a committee to see if it is feasible for what different parts of town want. In Cliffwood beach, we have a lot of seniors who like to walk to the beach. Guess what, they can't walk because there is no bathroom. They come to my house and ask if they could use my bathroom.

Tom: There is a rec. center, but we can't leave it open. It would be destroyed. Unless you want to pay for a supervisor to keep it open.

Joe C: I think what Fran is going back to what we were talking about before on committees. Maybe we can have a committee in the beachfront area to look at items that maybe they'd be interested in. Bring it to the meeting and talk about it with Tom. That is the only way we are going to feel like we are adding value and that Tom really could get valuable input from us.

Tom: We need to do it realistically. I've heard time and again, why does Ward II or South Old Bridge get all the parks? The easy answer to that is that is where the land is. But people don't understand that.

Fran: There is property down there.

Tom: I understand that, but it is not the kind of property that you could do something like that on. To a smaller degree, sure.

Fran: Joe liked the book I got from the Bay keeper. Why don't we have a baykeeper come and teach these kids about the environment and saving these animals and polluting. I don't see any programs for that.

Joe C: That would have to be introduced in the schools.

Tom: That is probably Cheesequake State Park Environmental Center.

Fran: I don't hear anything about the Bay.

Tom: Let me know, I can let the State Park Director know and he can implement that in Cheesequake State Park. It will not happen in Cliffwood Beach Center, but we can get it to happen at the State Park.

Fran: Nothing happens in Cliffwood Beach.

Tom: It is not a suitable place for it. That type of thing is more suitable for a big environmental center like on a state park scale. We have a state park in town.

Joe C: I know it's getting late. Why don't we think about the committees that you would like to have? We have the YMCA, I know we might be valuable to have links into the sports leagues. I know Tom and his group, without him last year, I would have been in trouble running section tournament games at the little league field. They came up and turned over the soil and prepared the infield for the little league section tournament. Otherwise, that field would have been hard as a rock. Think about some committees that we could have, golf course committee, soccer leagues, baseball or basketball leagues.

Joe D: You are suggesting subdivisions, like sports, playground, recreation use, maybe open space use, three or four different committees investigating certain areas that are developed already, maybe practical usage, what better ways it could be facilitated to make it more practical for the township. Not so much individualized, but in general areas and go to the community and find out about how they feel on each of these areas.
Joe C: Sometimes we need to reach out into the community or to these leagues and see how we can help and Tom can help. I know when the guys from Laurence Harbor came up and saw my fields for that tournament, I didn't want to tell them because I know they'd be calling Tom ten minutes later. Then he will take time away from my field (Laughter). As Tom said to me, as long as it could be scheduled. If we had that link into the baseball leagues, we could say to Tom it would be really good to run that equipment to really churn up the soil on the infield in the beginning of April for all the baseball fields, that's really what they want you to do, I think we'd be providing a valuable service to all the little league programs in town and give really good feedback to Tom on what we need. I just go back to that one thing because it really helped tremendously. I was on the verge of moving those games to Sayreville or somewhere else because the infield was too hard. I couldn't do anything with it. He came up and he did the infield. I don't know how long it took. But it looked great. Likewise with soccer and basketball, to see how this committee can help support them and pass the feedback into Tom. He can't be everywhere. He is only one person.

Tom: I think you are right, Joe. One of the things that this committee, I know you get frustrated, but I think also being on this committee you are being charged with not only going back to your individual leagues, and community areas and taking feedback from the people. That's your area. You are trying to find out what those people want. It doesn't mean we will do everything, but at least we have a pool of information that we can draw from. This is an Advisory Board. This is not a county or state park commission. We are trying to hopefully get information from you from the people that you know about whether you need programs, facilities, whatever. It is a big help to us and your community.

Mayor: I think a perfect example of this is the Genoa Playground. There was a playground many years ago, and apparently the neighbors at least at that time didn't feel it a priority. A group of them came and indicated they wanted that thing resurrected. The spot wasn't good. We found another spot of land that the township owned and we now have put in a playground, we will finish it in the spring. That was from the community, and we were very responsive. The money was there because of the Community Block Development Grant. We were able to use some of those dollars. We put it together in a relatively short time. That was directly from the community.

Joe D: Were we involved? Did it come through here?

Mayor: I don't think it did. There was no reason that you would have picked up on that. There may be other areas too. We own land right in that neighborhood. It was no big deal.

Joe D: So those people went directly to the Town Council. Is that how it worked?

Mayor: I think they had some other concerns, and that was one that was listed. There was some traffic problems, there was abandoned homes that they wanted taken care of. They had a whole laundry list that happened to be one of the things on the list.
Joe C: I think we are appointed by the Council and we try to work with Tom and sometimes it may sound like we are stepping on Tom's toes, and I don't want to give him that impression. But I think of each of us have our area of specialty that we are involved with in the town, be it soccer, cheerleading, the waterfront, the YMCA, or whatever, each person has the things they really care about, and I think sometimes we get passionate about those things and we like to make it better, or we ask why, but I do think we do have Tom, and a lot of times he says we need the money to do that. I think a couple of times we fell short of what we could have done, that we could have said to Tom we'd like to do this, and if he says it will cost a million, well maybe our next step should have been as a Committee was to write a letter to the Mayor, or to the Council, and say, we would like this. We work on the Rec. Committee and we work with Tom, and he said we could do this if we had the money, hey guys, can you help us find some money. I think this would be a worthwhile improvement for the town, and I think that would help Tom in getting something else done. I think it would make us feel we are adding more value in the committee. I don't mind giving up time, but I want to see I'm adding value. If I don't feel like I'm adding value, then I'm wondering why I am coming here. I don't want to be involved if we are just coming here to talk about things and not getting anything accomplished. I would like to go the extra mile this year. We could be writing letters with Tom on behalf of the committee, as residents of the town, to the governor, to the legislatures, to the DEP (talking about the pond that Fran would like cleaned up). Tom can't be sending out letters everyday. Likewise Carol can't be calling the Board of Ed every day to find out when we can get fields. We got 12 people sitting here, we can be a little bit more powerful if maybe do some things in between the monthly meetings to get things accomplished, like the lake cleanup.

Tom: Use your strength in numbers and also the fact that you are supposed to represent the rest of the community; this isn't just the people in this room. You are supposed to represent the community.

Fran: When you write letters, I found out, they get back to people with titles. Not just Mr. or Mrs. Taxpayer.

Joe C: Nothing says you don't draft a letter and send it out to everybody on the committee, we want to send this out as the Old Bridge Township Recreation Advisory Committee. Carol puts it on the letterhead and sends it in. She sends us all copies and you can mail it everyday. To a different person. That's what we did with the Board of Ed. If you remember, I e-mailed it to everybody, faxed it to Fran, we made our changes, and we got it to the Board of Ed in a day. That's how I operate. I like to see things getting done. How about next meeting we come in and talk about committees maybe people would be interested in, not only being on, but championing it, like Janet did with the YMCA, or the golf course, or talking with the planning board.

Mayor: I don't think you need to talk to the planning board, but I think I can just send out a memorandum to the Planning Dept. to say if there has been any developments that involve any kind of recreation package that they send the applications to you and then you can go to the meetings and give them your input.
Joe C: I think that might be great. It might be as simple as we see a development in this piece of land here is empty and they are going to put a tot lot in, and maybe it would be better to put in a basketball court. I don't know. Financially wise.

Paul: I don't want to sound against the idea, because this is my fourth year and there are times I feel I'm spinning my wheel. Last year we had a couple of successes, but I don't feel qualified, if I'm looking at a site plan and they say that's a tot lot, who am I to say it should be a basketball court.

Mayor: You can give your opinion.

Paul: I just don't want this thing to turn into something that I'm not qualified to do.

Joe C: Well, I think Tom will give input, the planning board naturally is going to say...

Mayor: I think you would be at a level of just giving your opinion, honestly, you wouldn't know ...

Paul: Is it targeted for the younger families moving in, is a middle aged thing, what surveys are there, what histories do we have, what's the feel for neighboring towns.

Fran: If you are going to build something for seniors, they won't need a tot lot.

Joe C: A great example is that I knew Geick Park was going up and I knew that great playground was going up by Camp Robin. The tot lots in my development are wasted because the kids don't want to play at those Tot Lots. They want to walk through the woods to his big, grandiose super tot lot.

Paul: Which wasn't there when your development went up.

Joe C: But it was known it was going to be there, we could have said that it makes more sense if there was something different here, because we will have the super playground in Geick. Right now what goes on in those Tot lots are the kids horse around, doing things they shouldn't be doing.

Joe R: Let me make one point. None of this could work unless we get community input. One of the things that is facing us right now is setting the prices for the skate park. That sounds to me like something of short-term nature, something we can do something about right away, we should put a committee to look at that, and go back to the community and get information on that. This is something we can do right away and we can get some return on. Suggest some pricing. Is this is something we are looking to do as a committee, let's do it.

Paul T: I'll be a part of that committee.

Joe R: I'll take it.

Joe C: You to want to be on that committee. These two guys will chair that and they will get support from us, likewise with Janet when she wants something, she can work with us. Janet keeps me up to date on the YMCA because I see her walking her dog all the time, what I'm saying the chair doesn't have to be the chairman of this committee or Tom, or Barbara, it can be anybody on the committee that says, I want to look at the skate park, or golf, or I want to look at something else.

Tom: The only thing I was going to suggest is that when you do this thing, please don't ask people what do you think you should have for the fees, that should not be... Just tell them that town council has asked your input in considering a fee structure. Explain the reason we are looking is to deter out of town traffic and this is the only way based on the legislation that we have built our parks and could do it. And then just get a feel for what they think about it. These people are not qualified to say what the fee is. Are they interested in that philosophy or not. Do they feel it should be totally subsidized by the taxpayers? The downside of that is that we will have a very difficult situation during the summer months because we cannot keep the nonresident traffic out. Those are the kinds of things to explain.

Janet: I think as we get information this month, as we get it we can give it to Joe R or Paul, the two of them can have some kind of report.

Joe C: That's why I think if we have everyone's e-mail address.

Fran: Is it OK with everybody that Carol makes copies of this phone and e-mail list and gives it to everyone.

Gerard: I didn't get any e-mail from you.

Joe C: Whatever was on that list that night that copied everybody's e-mail address from.

Gerard: I want to ask a favor. In terms of the information gathered individually, you had said a comment that you are up to date on what's going on with the YMCA because you run into Janet. I don't run into Janet and I'm not up to date. I think unless we are careful, we run the risk of certain individuals on this committee being privy to greater information than others. I think that could be a problem going forward. That you will have little pockets of committees that would be bypassing the will of the whole committee. In this particular case, the council asked for the committee's input coming back as a whole. However the committee chooses to do that is up to the committee certainly. But should individual movers of this committee on their own be sending off letters to different groups or to be doing certain things as if they were speaking for the committee?

Fran asks if it should come back to the table. Whatever a member working on, it should come back to the table before letters are sent out.

Gerard: That is a good idea. What you are suggesting is a mechanism. Maybe we need a mechanism.

Joe C: We should share everybody's e-mail address.

Tom: Both points are good, Gerard. If Janet gives you information, he wants to be able to see what Janet gave you, not your opinion.

Gerard: These letters went out...

Joe C: Were you at that meeting when we took everyone's numbers. I drafted the letter when we were in the meeting. And actually read the letter...

Gerard: Well, if I wasn't there, if I was absent, before going forward with that I would appreciate the courtesy of a call. For me not to have that information, or for me not be part of that process.

Joe C: I tried to accomplish that by collecting everyone's e-mail address, Fran didn't have one, but she had a fax number. I faxed it to her. I did not get any rejections from my e-mail. If I had everyone's address, I sent it out. E-mail makes it a lot easier to do that. If you weren't at the meeting, I didn't worry about you. But now, at least, we have an e-mail list.

Gerard: I didn't resign from the committee Joe. If that was the meeting I missed. It doesn't mean I am no longer a part of the committee.

Joe C: What I'm saying is let's collect the e-mail addresses and the way we can get in touch with people now.

Gerard: What I'm saying is I have a phone as well.

Joe C: You do. What I'm saying is I sent it to everybody who was on the list. You are right, maybe you weren't there and I didn't reach out to you. Should I, maybe I should have.

Gerard: That's just a case in point. I'm not saying it's personal, that you personally left me out. It's important that we don't have those type of gaps.

Joe C: I agree.

Paul: I think the minutes are one way of minimizing that happening. I'm sure that information was in the minutes. If they go out within a week or two of the meeting, those who are not in attendance will get the minutes.

Motion to adjourn at 9:55 PM by Paul and Joe C.

END OF MEETING